The Biblical Contradiction Thread

[Sassy]

In fact, I thought that Jews have always been hostile to the idea that the messiah is divine.   Some of them won't use the word 'messiah', as they see it as corrupted by Christian views.   The messiah is human, possibly a military leader, but definitely not divine.  In fact, for Jews this is an absurdity, and contradictory to monotheism.

It is a fact that the Jews and God never said the Messiah would be anything but a Holy thing...
Which applies to anything set aside for God only.
Jesus Christ/like the Messiah was  fully human with the divine nature of God.
He was a man and he as Luke tells us was foretold/the word and the word made flesh coming to pass.

15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Moses was like a God to Pharoah...
King James Bible
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Jesus and John the Baptist.

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

We see that God anointed Jesus with the Holy Ghost and with Power and he did all those things through the Power and God was with him. Just as he was with Moses.
King James Bible
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus as Moses, had Gods authority to speak unto mankind, as Moses spoke unto Pharoah. Jesus did all the things God would do and say. Moses had done the very same thing.

King James Bible
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jesus tells us that eternal life is:-

King James Bible
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

It is knowing both the father and the Son.

Jesus has told everyone that the two commandments are to love the LORD God with all our hearts (not Jesus Christ) and to love our neighbour as ourselves.  It is only in doing what Christ did..Loving God first and loving our neighbour as ourselves that we can love Jesus.

So in reality Christ is not a contradictory to the Jews. It is the Jews like many believers today who fail to take into account what the OT taught about the Messiah and the comparison to Moses. Even in the beginning they are told Jesus is a Holy thing. He is to be called the Son of God. Not God, not the Father but the Son of God. It is clear from Acts 10 that Peter believed Jesus was fully human and God was with him. That God gave Jesus the Holy Spirit and Power and he was through that power able to do th works God prepared for him. Just as Moses did the works God prepared for him by the power of God.

King James Bible
Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

The confusion of Christians is to make Christ to be God in flesh when in truth everyone in Christ is made one by the presence of Gods Spirit within them. The power of God in the life of every believer. Jesus told everyone unless he went away the anointing the Holy Spirit could not come. The disciples were told to wait till the Spirit had come upon them before starting their ministry.

Jesus Christ was fully human. His nature was like that of God, fully divine in that as a human being he committed no sin. Neither was he born through sin of two humans. Like the first Adam he was created by the power of God and his word born of Mary a virgin.

It is Christ's teachings we are to obey. His words are very clear.

King James Bible
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

He who sends is greater than he who is sent.
Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest man alive in his time.  Sometimes we have to think like Christ and the Prophets. The Roman Catholic changed teachings to force themselves above everything Jewish.
But the truth is that there is ONLY one way to God and Jesus Christ is that way. Peter knew Jesus was a human being.
He knew that God was with him and had given him the Holy Spirit and Power.


You need to study the bible and the words of Christ...Wiggy.

[Leonard James]

You need to study the bible and the words of Christ...Wiggy.

Wiggy doesn't need anything of the kind. Not that there is any danger of him becoming such a sad, indoctrinated figure as you are ... he is far too astute.

[floo]

Wiggy doesn't need anything of the kind. Not that there is any danger of him becoming such a sad, indoctrinated figure as you are ... he is far too astute.

Wigs is a good lad!

[Spud]

It means "anointed one". i.e. a king that is anointed with oil. In that respect, King David was a messiah.

The anointed king was also called God's son, 1 Sam 7:14, Ps. 2:7, 12. Jesus was God's son in the literal, divine sense, which he demonstrated throught his miracles. The key thing is that he did all the types of miracle which Jehovah the old Testament God did, such as open blind eyes, tread the waves of the sea etc. This is how he is understood to have fulfilled prophecy that he would be divine.

[floo]

The anointed king was also called God's son, 1 Sam 7:14, Ps. 2:7, 12. Jesus was God's son in the literal, divine sense, which he demonstrated throught his miracles. The key thing is that he did all the types of miracle which Jehovah the old Testament God did, such as open blind eyes, tread the waves of the sea etc. This is how he is understood to have fulfilled prophecy that he would be divine.

You have no proof of that whatsoever, or that any or what was attributed to Jesus is true.

[Spud]

You have no proof of that whatsoever, or that any or what was attributed to Jesus is true.

Yes, I do have proof, but it's not enough to convince you

[floo]

Yes, I do have proof, but it's not enough to convince you

So it isn't proof, merely belief.

[Spud]

So it isn't proof, merely belief.

What would convince you, floo?

[Stranger]

Yes, I do have proof...

Do tell.

[floo]

What would convince you, floo?

God stopping playing the game of hide and seek and revealing itself to the world in a way that is totally irrefutable to anyone. But that isn't going to happen.

[Leonard James]

Do tell.

It's all in the Bible so it must be true! 

[jeremyp]

Yes, I do have proof, but it's not enough to convince you

Proof is all or nothing. Either you have proof or you don't.

[floo]

It's all in the Bible so it must be true! 

It is so very sad that some people really believe that.

[Spud]

God stopping playing the game of hide and seek and revealing itself to the world in a way that is totally irrefutable to anyone. But that isn't going to happen.

You mean something like, praying for something to happen and it does?

[floo]

You mean something like, praying for something to happen and it does?

Like a fine day for the church fete? COINCIDENCE!

[wigginhall]

Yeah, but I prayed for a parking space, and 3 weeks later, I got one!  Miracle.

[Spud]

Like a fine day for the church fete? COICIDENCE!

Not necessarily. He might want it to be fine so that more money could be raised for the church in Africa.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Ok then. The sky is currently clear(ish) here where I am. Can you pray for rain in the next quarter of an hour. if it does I promise I will attend the local church service on Sunday, and spend two hours reading any bible passage you name.

[wigginhall]

Hang on, we do a rain dance for that sort of thing.    So when it rains we give thanks to the Aztec gods, who we believe are dancing with us. 

Prove it ain't so!

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Oh Dear, I must be persona non grata down at St. Luke's

At least I'll be able to cut the grass later though.

[Shaker]

Not necessarily. He might want it to be fine so that more money could be raised for the church in Africa.

Seems to me that Africa has rather more urgent claims on the coffers than lining the pockets of the church.

[Shaker]

You mean something like, praying for something to happen and it does?

What about when it doesn't?

Unless you're going to do now what every theist has failed to do so far and provide us with a methodology for evaluating these allegations, what you're actually talking about is the operation of sheer random chance but with a walloping dose of confirmation bias on your part.

[wigginhall]

Sassy wrote:

You need to study the bible and the words of Christ...Wiggy.

Well, we also need to study what Jews actually say about the messiah.   For example, from the website, jewfaq:

"The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being."

http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

[Spud]

What about when it doesn't?

Unless you're going to do now what every theist has failed to do so far and provide us with a methodology for evaluating these allegations, what you're actually talking about is the operation of sheer random chance but with a walloping dose of confirmation bias on your part.

Well obviously God is asleep, when it doesn't happen.

Seriously though. When you pray for something, it has to be for God's glory otherwise it's like we are telling him what to do.

[floo]

Not necessarily. He might want it to be fine so that more money could be raised for the church in Africa.