Boy removed from flight....

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Here is a news item about a 7 year old boy who was removed from a flight because he was allergic to animals on board. The other passengers applauded.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/tripping/wp/2016/02/25/horrible-people-applaud-as-7-year-old-is-removed-from-plane-because-of-allergic-reaction-to-pets/

***************

So it’s come to this: America’s love for dogs and other furry non-humans has become so all-consuming that people on an airplane will cheer when a 7-year-old boy is removed from a flight because he had an allergic reaction to a dog on board.

A kid who was on his way home to Phoenix after an especially meaningful trip to Bellingham, Wash., with his father, who has been diagnosed with terminal stage-4 cancer.

“He began to get very itchy,” his mother, Christina Fabian, told King 5 News in Washington. “He was scratching all over and he started to get hives. So we informed the flight attendant, who informed us that, ‘Well, there’s dogs on every flight,’ and just smirked. . .”

The Feb. 22 flight’s takeoff was delayed, the couple said, and the family was asked to debark. The mother said she understood. But both parents told reporters that what happened next was deeply painful. Some passengers laughed at the boy in distress. And when the family packed up their belongings and exited the aircraft, some passengers clapped. Two days later, they flew home on a different flight.

“I felt hopeless when everyone started laughing at me and my kid,” the father, George Alvarado, told KPNX TV news in Arizona. “He was thinking that it’s his fault. He just kept saying, ‘Sorry, sorry.’ All of a sudden he just started crying.”

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Any views?

Sriram

[Bubbles]

Hi everyone,

Here is a news item about a 7 year old boy who was removed from a flight because he was allergic to animals on board. The other passengers applauded.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/tripping/wp/2016/02/25/horrible-people-applaud-as-7-year-old-is-removed-from-plane-because-of-allergic-reaction-to-pets/

***************

So it’s come to this: America’s love for dogs and other furry non-humans has become so all-consuming that people on an airplane will cheer when a 7-year-old boy is removed from a flight because he had an allergic reaction to a dog on board.

A kid who was on his way home to Phoenix after an especially meaningful trip to Bellingham, Wash., with his father, who has been diagnosed with terminal stage-4 cancer.

“He began to get very itchy,” his mother, Christina Fabian, told King 5 News in Washington. “He was scratching all over and he started to get hives. So we informed the flight attendant, who informed us that, ‘Well, there’s dogs on every flight,’ and just smirked. . .”

The Feb. 22 flight’s takeoff was delayed, the couple said, and the family was asked to debark. The mother said she understood. But both parents told reporters that what happened next was deeply painful. Some passengers laughed at the boy in distress. And when the family packed up their belongings and exited the aircraft, some passengers clapped. Two days later, they flew home on a different flight.

“I felt hopeless when everyone started laughing at me and my kid,” the father, George Alvarado, told KPNX TV news in Arizona. “He was thinking that it’s his fault. He just kept saying, ‘Sorry, sorry.’ All of a sudden he just started crying.”

****************

Any views?

Sriram

That's awful.

Ive had a totally different experience when flying from the uk.

I think it was with easy jet, but we had someone on board who had a severe allergy to nuts and the cabin crew announced they would not be selling anything which contained nuts during the flight.

So no snickers or peanuts.

At the time I thought it was a bit ott, but looking back it was probably sensible because the person eating nuts might have got nut oil on their fingers.

On my last flight we had a mobility dog in the cabin, it was so well behaved even on take off.

I did notice that lots of people fly with pets between the Canary Islands.

Not sure I want it, tbh.

Mobility dogs are ok though.

First time I've had a dog in the cabin.

It's difficult when you are allergic to people's pets, I'm not prepared to come second to someone else's dog, even if not allergic.

I think it would be very unfair to others for me to travel on an airoplane with my pet dog as it is a very large male German shepherd.

He would invade other people's space.

In the USA they catch a plane like others catch a bus, so pets on planes probably isn't unusual.

I would have pet dogs banned from 1st class and would have found a space for the boy there with one of his parents. ( if short of space)

[L.A.]

It probably was a sensible decision to remove the boy, there might have been a possibility of anaphylaxis shock - not the kind of emergency you want mid-flight.

The reaction of the passengers (as noted) was reprehensible.

[floo]

I am gobsmacked to think that a dog would actually be in the cabin, that is CRAZY! Surely animals of any sort should be in the hold, in special containers!

[Hope]

Whilst it is clear from the report that the applause in this case was unacceptable, its worth remembering that applause can be a sympathetic process as well.  Think of the new tendency to celebrate people's lives by a minute's applause rather than silence.  It would be interesting to know whether any of the folk on this flight applauded for this reason.

[ProfessorDavey]

Hi everyone,

Here is a news item about a 7 year old boy who was removed from a flight because he was allergic to animals on board. The other passengers applauded.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/tripping/wp/2016/02/25/horrible-people-applaud-as-7-year-old-is-removed-from-plane-because-of-allergic-reaction-to-pets/

***************

So it’s come to this: America’s love for dogs and other furry non-humans has become so all-consuming that people on an airplane will cheer when a 7-year-old boy is removed from a flight because he had an allergic reaction to a dog on board.

A kid who was on his way home to Phoenix after an especially meaningful trip to Bellingham, Wash., with his father, who has been diagnosed with terminal stage-4 cancer.

“He began to get very itchy,” his mother, Christina Fabian, told King 5 News in Washington. “He was scratching all over and he started to get hives. So we informed the flight attendant, who informed us that, ‘Well, there’s dogs on every flight,’ and just smirked. . .”

The Feb. 22 flight’s takeoff was delayed, the couple said, and the family was asked to debark. The mother said she understood. But both parents told reporters that what happened next was deeply painful. Some passengers laughed at the boy in distress. And when the family packed up their belongings and exited the aircraft, some passengers clapped. Two days later, they flew home on a different flight.

“I felt hopeless when everyone started laughing at me and my kid,” the father, George Alvarado, told KPNX TV news in Arizona. “He was thinking that it’s his fault. He just kept saying, ‘Sorry, sorry.’ All of a sudden he just started crying.”

****************

Any views?

Sriram

Why do I get the feeling we aren't getting the whole story here. This report is written entirely from the side of the boy's family.

Just dropped into the report and pretty hidden is the fact that the dog was a 'service' dog, in our language a guide dog or similar - not a pet but a dog that provides essential help to a disabled person.

And we know there was a 90 minute delay, but what really was going on during that time. Were we perhaps dealing with a family remonstrating with the airline to try to get a disabled person and their guide dog thrown off the plan because of their child's allergy and not budging on the issue despite being told that the plane couldn't take off without either they or the disabled person being kicked off.

Do you know, what if that's the case (and I've seen slightly similar in the past) I'd have been rooting for the disabled person and hoping for the remonstrating family to get off the plane so that we could all take off. And if that is the real and full story, not just the family's spin then although I don't necessarily condone the applause I can completely understand it.

The similar (ish) story I have is a transatlantic flight I was on a few years ago. There was clearly a problem with one passenger (a woman) who was having a heated exchange with the cabin crew and refusing to sit down. The plane was being delayed. She claimed she was feeling ill and therefore needed to be upgraded to make the overnight flight more comfortable for her. The cabin crew said 'no' and on and on she went about how ill she was, how she'd been ill for a few days etc etc. The result - they chucked her off the plane on the basis that she had declared herself unfit to fly. No-one applauded but I'm certain most of us were inwardly cheering as she got kicked off.

[Brownie]

I agree that we are probably not getting the entire story.
It seems sensible to remove someone from the flight if they are likely to have a severe allergic reaction, and put them on another flight that does not have the same risk.
Maybe the applause was inappropriate - might not have been if it was because the child was being helped.  We don't know.

[Rhiannon]

Agreed. If there's a severe allergy then you need to find out beforehand if there is an allergen risk before booking tickets. If the allergy isn't severe you still should check and/or tank up with antihistamines

Do we know that the laughing/applause was about the boy? Could have just been relief at being told they were preparing to take off. Do we know that the mother wasn't being so obnoxious that it was her removal that was being applauded? We don't, but it seems just as plausible.

[L.A.]

Agreed. If there's a severe allergy then you need to find out beforehand if there is an allergen risk before booking tickets. If the allergy isn't severe you still should check and/or tank up with antihistamines

Do we know that the laughing/applause was about the boy? Could have just been relief at being told they were preparing to take off. Do we know that the mother wasn't being so obnoxious that it was her removal that was being applauded? We don't, but it seems just as plausible.

I suppose most people wouldn't expect to encounter a dog on a flight, so it sounds as if it might have been a simple oversight by the child's mother, but the situation seems to have been badly handled by the airline.

[ProfessorDavey]

Agreed. If there's a severe allergy then you need to find out beforehand if there is an allergen risk before booking tickets. If the allergy isn't severe you still should check and/or tank up with antihistamines

Do we know that the laughing/applause was about the boy? Could have just been relief at being told they were preparing to take off. Do we know that the mother wasn't being so obnoxious that it was her removal that was being applauded? We don't, but it seems just as plausible.

Yes I think that's the bit were are missing from the story - the clear possibility that one of the parents was being obnoxious and totally unreasonable - potentially demanding that the airline kick off a disabled person and their guide dog to allow them to travel. I suspect if that is the case (and we do know the offending dog was a 'service' dog) then the sympathy is going to be with the disabled person and not the remonstrating family.

[Rhiannon]

I suppose most people wouldn't expect to encounter a dog on a flight, so it sounds as if it might have been a simple oversight by the child's mother, but the situation seems to have been badly handled by the airline.

Even on a UK domestic flight you can get guide or hearing dogs. If an allergy is that severe, you look on the carrier's website or you ring and ask. I know because I have to do this myself.

[ProfessorDavey]

Even on a UK domestic flight you can get guide or hearing dogs. If an allergy is that severe, you look on the carrier's website or you ring and ask. I know because I have to do this myself.

The news story suggests the parents weren't aware of the allergy previously, and if so there would be no reason whey they should have checked whether there would have been a dog on board.

That said it seems pretty strange that a boy can reach the age of 7 without contact with dogs that would kick off his allergy and then suddenly develop an allergy that severe due to a single dog on a plane. Presumably the airline looked first to move the passengers to get the boy and the dog as far away as possible.

As with so many of these news items written from one side there is too much that doesn't really add up.

[L.A.]

Even on a UK domestic flight you can get guide or hearing dogs. If an allergy is that severe, you look on the carrier's website or you ring and ask. I know because I have to do this myself.

That's fair enough, but I don't think I have ever been on a flight that had a dog on board, it probably wouldn't cross the minds of most people.

[ProfessorDavey]

That's fair enough, but I don't think I have ever been on a flight that had a dog on board, it probably wouldn't cross the minds of most people.

It is rare but not unheard of. I think it depends where you fly.

I certainly can't think of examples in Europe of long haul, but I have not infrequently taken domestic flights in the USA and occasionally been aware of pets being carried. These have always been in a proper traveling pet bag, so not free to loam around the plane, but it does happen.

[Rhiannon]

The news story suggests the parents weren't aware of the allergy previously, and if so there would be no reason whey they should have checked whether there would have been a dog on board.

That said it seems pretty strange that a boy can reach the age of 7 without contact with dogs that would kick off his allergy and then suddenly develop an allergy that severe due to a single dog on a plane. Presumably the airline looked first to move the passengers to get the boy and the dog as far away as possible.

As with so many of these news items written from one side there is too much that doesn't really add up.

In which case the allergy might not have been to the dog at all. Planes are awash with chemicals.

[ProfessorDavey]

In which case the allergy might not have been to the dog at all. Planes are awash with chemicals.

Indeed.

[Bubbles]

I am gobsmacked to think that a dog would actually be in the cabin, that is CRAZY! Surely animals of any sort should be in the hold, in special containers!

They can't they would freeze to death

[Bubbles]

The mobility dog on my flight was with Thomsons

[ProfessorDavey]

They can't they would freeze to death

They can and they do. Aircraft have sections of the hold which maintain ambient condition (e.g. temperature) to transport not just animals but also other cargo which might be temperature sensitive and needs to be largely at room temperature.

[Bubbles]

They can and they do. Aircraft have sections of the hold which maintain ambient condition (e.g. temperature) to transport not just animals but also other cargo which might be temperature sensitive and needs to be largely at room temperature.

I didn't know that, just heard of people freezing to death trying to stow away

[ProfessorDavey]

I didn't know that, just heard of people freezing to death trying to stow away

That's usually people who try to stowaway in the compartment where the wheels retract into and is pretty well uninsulated from the outside sub freezing conditions.

But the hold isn't like that at all - even the bits not specifically for animals are much closer to the 20oC inside the main cabin than the -30oC outside the plane. So probably about 15oC.

Think about it - if the hold was at -30oC and you were on a reasonably lengthy flight, you'd get your luggage back and find that all the fluids inside had frozen. But they aren't - they might be a tad chilly but not frozen at all.

[L.A.]

I suspect that the unfortunate lad might at some time have had a rash that was (rightly or wrongly) assumed to be a reaction to dog hair. Upon discovering that there was a dog on board the boys mother asked to be moved but when she mentioned the word 'allergy' the aircrew panicked.

[jeremyp]

And we know there was a 90 minute delay, but what really was going on during that time. Were we perhaps dealing with a family remonstrating with the airline to try to get a disabled person and their guide dog thrown off the plan because of their child's allergy and not budging on the issue despite being told that the plane couldn't take off without either they or the disabled person being kicked off.

Do you know, what if that's the case (and I've seen slightly similar in the past) I'd have been rooting for the disabled person and hoping for the remonstrating family to get off the plane so that we could all take off. And if that is the real and full story, not just the family's spin then although I don't necessarily condone the applause I can completely understand it.

It does not take 90 minutes to disembark somebody from a plane, even if they have hold luggage. My guess is that the family spent most of it refusing to budge and that the applause was because everybody else was getting pretty pissed off that they were delaying the flight. It's also entirely possible that the people applauding did not know exactly why the family was being ejected from the plane.

I'm not saying that this is what happened, only that it is a possibility and we should not rush to judge the applauders because we do not have the whole story.

The similar (ish) story I have is a transatlantic flight I was on a few years ago. There was clearly a problem with one passenger (a woman) who was having a heated exchange with the cabin crew and refusing to sit down. The plane was being delayed.

I was once on a train on the Severn Beach line in Bristol and somebody got on with a bike when the train already had the maximum number of bikes on it. The train manager refused to let the train move until the bike was removed (he offered to wait until the owner had locked his bike up on the platform) but its owner decided to stay on board and argue the point.  It took 20 minutes for him to be persuaded that we weren't going anywhere and to get off the train. There was much applauding when he finally did. However the lack of sympathy was informed by the fact that the bike's owner only wanted to go one stop and it would have taken him less than 10 minutes to get there by bike.

I have also heard sarcastic applause when planes have been delayed by late passengers and they finally deign to leave the duty free and board.

[jeremyp]

Agreed. If there's a severe allergy then you need to find out beforehand if there is an allergen risk before booking tickets.

That's not necessarily practical. What if the blind person with guide dog books their seats after you do?

[Brownie]

A blind person with dog would say as much when booking and the airline would put them on a flight where people have not stated they are allergic to dogs.  Someone who states they are allergic to dogs would be put on a dog free flight.  There are plenty of flights, especially in the States.