Why do Christians pray to their god?

[Brownie]

Now who would that be, pray/prey?

[Leonard James]

Now who would that be, pray/prey?

Just a fairy tale characters invented by the juvenile mind for comfort.

[Bubbles]

I had a sense of God before reading the Bible, when I was a small child.  I wouldn't have identified it as such, didn't have the words, but I felt there was a benign but unseen presence taking care of me.  You may think I invented that or that my immature psyche created it to fulfill a need.  I really don't know but I certainly felt it.  Very good it was too.  I used to draw pictures and if I drew myself, I was always surrounded but not obscured by fluffy clouds, gentle sunshine, attractive surroundings (I was a good draw-er for my age).

As I got older it went and I felt cold and isolated.  Something else took the place of what I now call ''God'' but it wasn't always effective and was less comfortable.  I still have that but occasionally I recapture the wonderful feeling of being nurtured that I had when I was small.

So you have my musings and please don't suggest medication or call the shrink.  I don't believe there is anything unusual about what I have described but people often don't remember or perhaps it didn't last so long for them.

Which is why I dispute the claim that babies are default atheists 

[Sebastian Toe]

Which is why I dispute the claim that babies are default atheists 

How would you describe them then in regard to that topic?

[Bubbles]

How would you describe them then in regard to that topic?

Open minded.

[Sebastian Toe]

Open minded.

In what way?

[BeRational]

Open minded.

No, they do not believe in a God until someone tells them about a God. How could they?
Therefore they are atheists.

[Sassy]

No, they do not believe in a God until someone tells them about a God. How could they?
Therefore they are atheists.

Untrue, like Brownie, I believed and sensed God being around without being told.
I can remember back to being sat in my pram.
A baby is innocent in that they can speak no evil and have committed no sin of themselves.

Gods love and truth will never pass from the earth. I think it sad that anyone would think a baby an atheist.
Can a baby in infancy really believe or disbelief as to make sense of God in the world of adulthood?

I think it is going to far to bring babies into this. Children are far more trusting than adults.

[Brownie]

They certainly are.  I always had a sense of a caring, higher power to which I could not put a name, from when I was really tiny - and it was nothing to do with my parents.  I was not surrounded by 'churchy' people, my family did not go to church and faith was never talked about.  When I started school I had religious education but prior to that, there was nothing.
This will undoubtedly sound vague to a non-believer but no matter.

[Sassy]

They certainly are.  I always had a sense of a caring, higher power to which I could not put a name, from when I was really tiny - and it was nothing to do with my parents.  I was not surrounded by 'churchy' people, my family did not go to church and faith was never talked about.  When I started school I had religious education but prior to that, there was nothing.
This will undoubtedly sound vague to a non-believer but no matter.

I believe children sense God more than adults because they are innocent and close to the truth than adults.
I feel that somehow God has always lead me through my life. Things make sense with God.
None-believers somehow lose that sensitivity to God as they grow older. But for me God has always been around. Same for you too, probably. 

[Bubbles]

They certainly are.  I always had a sense of a caring, higher power to which I could not put a name, from when I was really tiny - and it was nothing to do with my parents.  I was not surrounded by 'churchy' people, my family did not go to church and faith was never talked about.  When I started school I had religious education but prior to that, there was nothing.
This will undoubtedly sound vague to a non-believer but no matter.

Yes, I was the same.

I don't think babies are born as Athiests.

I think it would explain why just about every remote tribe has a religion of some sort, even if they are so remote they don't have much contact with the outside world.

[Bubbles]

No, they do not believe in a God until someone tells them about a God. How could they?
Therefore they are atheists.

You have three people here who remember being a baby.

Floo also remembers being a baby, although she had a religious background around her, I wonder what she remembers?


If babies were born atheists you would have at least a few remote tribes who had no religion, why would they?

But there is usually a belief of some sort.

If a number of babies are born with this feeling inside them, it would explain why remote tribes form a religion.

After all, a remote tribe that can't read and doesn't have much contact with their neighbours can't just hear about it.

Some of them would have set up a society without a religion of some sort.

But they normally do have one.

It would explain why they do.

( without getting into what is true, and what isn't )

[Brownie]

Yes, an awareness of God comes first, religion later - or not.  Religion can actually be off putting and young children are confused if they see grown ups, who adhere to a religion, saying things as if, and not behaving as though, they have God within them.  (Having said all that, parents often can't win  .)

[Maeght]

Untrue, like Brownie, I believed and sensed God being around without being told.

Can a baby in infancy really believe or disbelief as to make sense of God in the world of adulthood?

That's why people say babies are atheist - meaning they have no belief in God.

[ekim]

That's why people say babies are atheist - meaning they have no belief in God.

Perhaps they could be called gnostic in the sense that they know the divine but are incapable of expressing it in theistic terms.  Once theism kicks in they lose gnosis and 'unless you become as a little child again'.... etc.

[Hope]

That's why people say babies are atheist - meaning they have no belief in God.

Maeght, do you have evidence in support of this claim?  The problem is that I'm not sure that anyone knows how a baby's brain works at this level.  As ekim suggests, agnostic would probably be more realistic unless you are also willing to suggest that a baby is equally ascience - in the 'knowledge' sense of the word science.

[ekim]

As ekim suggests, agnostic would probably be more realistic

I said the opposite i.e. they 'know' (gnostic) but don't have the mental capacity to theistically conceptualise it.

[Hope]

To return to the thread title; I pray for much the same reason that I used to speak with my parents before they died - not to mention the reason why I speak with my siblings and other relatives and friends.

So, yes, sometimes I talk with God as an equal - John White in his book 'Partners in Prayer' describes prayer as taking part in a 'celestial board meeting', where each board member has equal influence.  Sometimes, I talk with a degree of respect, as I would have done with my parents or older friends who have greater experience in various issues than I do.  On other occasions, prayer is time of sheer fun - again, as is the case with conversations with frinds and family - and yes, occasionally prayer is venting my frustrations with God, with friends and family and with whatever negative circumstance I might be in at the time - currently, that is the time I am taking to recover from my ill-health thro' 2015.

[Hope]

I said the opposite i.e. they 'know' (gnostic) but don't have the mental capacity to theistically conceptualise it.

Sorry, ekim - just reread your post.  I misrepresented you.  However, I stll believe that agnostic would be better, because I'm not sure that being able (or otherwise) to conceptualise something is necessariy the right marker. 

[BeRational]

Sorry, ekim - just reread your post.  I misrepresented you.  However, I stll believe that agnostic would be better, because I'm not sure that being able (or otherwise) to conceptualise something is necessariy the right marker.

Agnostic is not some half way house.

All babies are atheists at birth.

This is just a fact and not up for debate.

There are any number of things they do not yet believe (how could they!).

They do not believe the Earth is round, they do not believe the Earth is flat. They know nothing about the Earth to have belief at all!

[Hope]

Agnostic is not some half way house.

Precisely, which is why I believe that infants are agnostic, not atheist.  They simply don't know.  Atheism is an action, in the same way that theism is.

[BeRational]

Precisely, which is why I believe that infants are agnostic, not atheist.  They simply don't know.  Atheism is an action, in the same way that theism is.

That's NOT precisely!

Because they do not KNOW about anything they also cannot BELIEVE it!

You have to know about something first!


It is a simple trivial fact they they BOTH do not know about stuff, and therefore do not BELIEVE stuff.

[Hope]

That's NOT precisely!

Because they do not KNOW about anything they also cannot BELIEVE it!

You have to know about something first!


It is a simple trivial fact they they BOTH do not know about stuff, and therefore do not BELIEVE stuff.

Agrred, and I'd put the 'don't know' before the 'don't believe' in the process; you seem to be putting the 'don't believe' first.  I'd say that not having knowledge trumps not believing.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Agrred, and I'd put the 'don't know' before the 'don't believe' in the process; you seem to be putting the 'don't believe' first.  I'd say that not having knowledge trumps not believing.

It's no a case of either/ or. For most descriptions of God I have heard I am an Agnostic Atheist. In the case of the God of YEC then I am just an Atheist.

Anyway any chance of you answering the outstanding question on the other thread?

[ekim]

Sorry, ekim - just reread your post.  I misrepresented you.  However, I stll believe that agnostic would be better, because I'm not sure that being able (or otherwise) to conceptualise something is necessariy the right marker.

I agree that theistic concepts are not an advantage and yet religious literature is full of them, like God, Heaven, soul.  I was also linking what I said to Brownie's experience in her post 'Yes, an awareness of God comes first, religion later - or not.'  Even then it appears that she is looking back and giving a childhood experience a theological name.