Why do Christians pray to their god?

[Brownie]

Anyone who claims god exists as a fact is a liar as there is no evidence to substantiate the claim! Of course it is just remotely possible it could exist, which begs the question why is it playing silly beggars with humanity?

Calling people liars is very strong floo.  Many of us believe that God exists, we can't prove it but we are quite certain about it.  You have known people who are the same, would you call them liars?  In order to lie you have to be deliberate about it.
PS:  I wish you'd revisit the 'praying to saints' thread.  You started it, it's on its second page so it must be worth a visit from the author.

[Maeght]

Calling people liars is very strong floo.  Many of us believe that God exists, we can't prove it but we are quite certain about it.  You have known people who are the same, would you call them liars?  In order to lie you have to be deliberate about it.
PS:  I wish you'd revisit the 'praying to saints' thread.  You started it, it's on its second page so it must be worth a visit from the author.

Agreed. They're not lying as they believe it to be true and see what they consider to be evidence to support that belief.

[Brownie]

Thanks Maeght.

[floo]

If they state that god exists as a FACT it is a lie, imo, because is not a fact only a mere belief.

[Brownie]

Alright then, I am a liar by your definition floo.  In the days when you believed God existed, you were a liar, so were your friends and family.

[Nearly Sane]

If they state that god exists as a FACT it is a lie, imo, because is not a fact only a mere belief.

But they believe it to be a fact and therefore are not lying, which entails deliberate misrepresentation.

[ippy]

Calling people liars is very strong floo.  Many of us believe that God exists, we can't prove it but we are quite certain about it.  You have known people who are the same, would you call them liars?  In order to lie you have to be deliberate about it.
PS:  I wish you'd revisit the 'praying to saints' thread.  You started it, it's on its second page so it must be worth a visit from the author.

Deluded would be about the right word, liar isn't really fair imo

ippy

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

Deluded, believing in something which is false, nope, I believe in something which is true ( for me ) so not deluded

Gonnagle.

[ippy]

Dear ippy,

Deluded, believing in something which is false, nope, I believe in something which is true ( for me ) so not deluded

Gonnagle.

Gonners, you nor anyone else can possibly know whether there is any truth in your religious stuff, especially the magical, mythical and the superstition based parts thereof, which is very unlikely to have any truth in it, therefore delusional, unless of course?

Hope can help you with the evidence, well he thinks he can?

ippy

[BeRational]

Dear ippy,

Deluded, believing in something which is false, nope, I believe in something which is true ( for me ) so not deluded

Gonnagle.

The existence of a god or gods is either true or false. It is not a true for you type thing.

[Sassy]

The existence of a god or gods is either true or false. It is not a true for you type thing.

It is true to say that believing or disbelieving in God is a fact.
His existence is only known by those who have faith and meet him.

[NicholasMarks]

All...

All the truth is out there we just have to reason it out correctly...and believe truth when we are told truth, and disbelieve lies as soon as they become obvious as lies. If we did then scammers would find it much harder to weave their delusions around us...we wouldn't be taken in by the profiteers who paint delusions to sell their merchandise and we wouldn't believe the reasoners who openly say that they will crush Jesus' teaching even without knowing his teaching or even owning a Holy Bible.

But the point here is why do believers pray...we do this because Jesus showed us how to pray and we like to do what he tells us. We then find that a righteous strength is being added to our own being. An added dimension enters our lives and we become much more confident because we find it easier to dismiss all the tripe that is thrown at us all...believers and non-believers.

If we analyse things we can say we are being filled emotionally by a nourishment that reaches deep within us...and a clever scientist could put clever reasoning to it...but for my money, we, by adopting meekness and righteous truth as our guidence-tool are being filled with God's living water...an invisible quencher of hard to reach thirsts.

[torridon]

All...

All the truth is out there we just have to reason it out correctly...and believe truth when we are told truth, and disbelieve lies as soon as they become obvious as lies.

That is why evidence based critical reasoning is valuable.  In earlier times people would more likely just accept what they were told on faith, or by authority, because it says so in the Bible/Qu'ran etc.  Now we are getting better at asking does this stand up to scrutiny and dismissing beliefs that don't.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That is why evidence based critical reasoning is valuable.  In earlier times people would more likely just accept what they were told on faith, or by authority, because it says so in the Bible/Qu'ran etc.  Now we are getting better at asking does this stand up to scrutiny and dismissing beliefs that don't.

I afraid there is evidence that people on this board do not want to contemplate the universes nature which is beyond science. This is dogmatic agnosticism and nor critical reasoning.

Either you are peek of CR  ;)or the worst kind of Dogmatic agnostic safely occupied on this board where your refusal to see the naturalists predicament is contained.

[SusanDoris]

I afraid there is evidence that people on this board do not want to contemplate the universes nature which is beyond science. This is dogmatic agnosticism and nor critical reasoning.

Either you are peek of CR  ;)or the worst kind of Dogmatic agnostic safely occupied on this board where your refusal to see the naturalists predicament is contained.

1- Explain how the universe can have a nature' and what it is.
2 - When you have done this, explaine exactly what you mean by 'beyond science'.

[torridon]

I afraid there is evidence that people on this board do not want to contemplate the universes nature which is beyond science. This is dogmatic agnosticism and nor critical reasoning.

Either you are peek of CR  ;)or the worst kind of Dogmatic agnostic safely occupied on this board where your refusal to see the naturalists predicament is contained.

eerm, what is peek of CR ?

Also not sure what could be meant by 'beyond science'.  Science broadly means 'knowledge', and more specifically refers to knowledge gained through empirical means.  How could we know anything beyond the bounds of knowledge.  We could speculate but speculation is not knowledge.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

1- Explain how the universe can have a nature' and what it is.
2 - When you have done this, explaine exactly what you mean by 'beyond science'.

1: Is it self created, is it eternally uncreated and self moved or is it created. Those are our only options......These are the only natures (ways of being) of the universe possible.

2. Science could never probe the eternal. It could never observe nor recreate the nothing out of which a universe could have popped.

I'm afraid agnosticism in these circumstances beyond not knowing which of the above options for the way the universe is, is an act of faith, a clinging to an unfulfillable faith that by some miraculous process science will answer in favour of scientism and naturalism.

[Sebastian Toe]

1: Is it self created, is it eternally uncreated and self moved or is it created. Those are our only options......These are the only natures (ways of being) of the universe possible.

There's at least a fourth way.
Have you not been following Nick's wonderful lectures on the science of Jesus?
If you had then you would know that the universe was formed when gigantic clouds of galactic size of God's swirly twirly dynamic electrical energy crashed together.

Don't say that Nick is wrong, it would be a crushing blow for God's wonderful science.

Is Nick wrong Vlad?
Don't be shy now.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There's at least a fourth way.
Have you not been following Nick's wonderful lectures on the science of Jesus?
If you had then you would know that the universe was formed when gigantic clouds of galactic size of God's swirly twirly dynamic electrical energy crashed together.

Don't say that Nick is wrong, it would be a crushing blow for God's wonderful science.

Is Nick wrong Vlad?
Don't be shy now.

Nicks view is the universe was created so he follows and has committed to that.
As for the mechanics?......swirly is acceptable but I would not go so far as twirly.Have you interpolated a degree of freedom there Seb?

[SusanDoris]

1: Is it self created, is it eternally uncreated and self moved or is it created. Those are our only options......These are the only natures (ways of being) of the universe possible.

2. Science could never probe the eternal. It could never observe nor recreate the nothing out of which a universe could have popped.

I'm afraid agnosticism in these circumstances beyond not knowing which of the above options for the way the universe is, is an act of faith, a clinging to an unfulfillable faith that by some miraculous process science will answer in favour of scientism and naturalism.

I asked you two straightforward questions. I find your response incomprehensible!

[NicholasMarks]

That is why evidence based critical reasoning is valuable.  In earlier times people would more likely just accept what they were told on faith, or by authority, because it says so in the Bible/Qu'ran etc.  Now we are getting better at asking does this stand up to scrutiny and dismissing beliefs that don't.

I'm not condemning science though many of its scientists are questionable...I am questioning your combined abilities here, to put those facts and data points together and realise the scientific advantages of praying to God in the way Jesus taught us.

It seems to me that the Catholic confession, the Freudian psyco-analysis techniques, the Samaratans, all scientifically prove the value of prayer...especially when Biblical answers like forgiveness and turning the other cheek offer the best solution to many of our most distressing problems.

[Sebastian Toe]

I'm not condemning science though many of its scientists are questionable...I am questioning your combined abilities to here, to put those facts and data points together and realise the scientific advantages of praying to God in the way Jesus taught us.

It seems to me that the Catholic confession, the Freudian psyco-analysis techniques, the Samaratans, all scientifically prove the value of prayer...

If it is as proved as you claim then why don't the Samaritans tell their callers to use it? It being scientific and everything.
Seems a bit tragic to me. A bit like a doctor withholding treatment that he knows will work.
What do you think Nick?

[NicholasMarks]

If it is as proved as you claim then why don't the Samaritans tell their callers to use it? It being scientific and everything.
Seems a bit tragic to me. A bit like a doctor withholding treatment that he knows will work.
What do you think Nick?

Because the Samaritans have their own skillful way of dealing with these issues...but, as you say, the thirst within these distressed people would be best quenched by a little human compassion that is offered by prayer...but the brain-washing of the many different religions, different cultures, and different atheist beliefs make that all very difficult. That is why, perhaps, Jesus only offers help to those who go to him...directly.

[torridon]

I'm not condemning science though many of its scientists are questionable...I am questioning your combined abilities here, to put those facts and data points together and realise the scientific advantages of praying to God in the way Jesus taught us.

If you want to be truly scientific about it you would need to avoid such things as prayer.  If at all possible, take humans out of the loop a;together and set up equipment to test theory - machines don't come loaded with emotional baggage and prejudices as do humans

[NicholasMarks]

If you want to be truly scientific about it you would need to avoid such things as prayer.  If at all possible, take humans out of the loop a;together and set up equipment to test theory - machines don't come loaded with emotional baggage and prejudices as do humans

The first thing we need to realise here is that Jesus Christ was not from this world. He was from another very advanced world...and so he was working from a very advanced world's knowledge base. Do you see how foolish you all are for not taking him seriously.

Prayer then is already an established method of communication on this world...Heaven..and obviously has scientific advantages...proven by Sigmund Freud...what more scientific answers do you need...unless you are just trying to muddy the waters.