Author Topic: Why do Christians pray to their god?  (Read 25980 times)

floo

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #200 on: October 03, 2016, 09:19:55 AM »
You have to hand it to NM, his unique interpretation of the Bible has livened up the forum since his return. :) It was languishing in the doldrums, before he spiced it up.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #201 on: October 03, 2016, 02:12:20 PM »

That is why, perhaps, Jesus only offers help to those who go to him...directly.
Then why don't the Samaritans tell their callers to go to him...directly?

What do you think Nick?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
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Brownie

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #202 on: October 03, 2016, 02:30:16 PM »
Not everyone who calls The Samaritans will believe in Jesus, Seb, and the Samaritans themselves have to be neutral when it comes to religion.

A person with religious beliefs who is in difficulties will ask God for help and guidance, then may feel moved to consult someone whom they hadn't previously thought of.  We'd have to ask them.  I've not known any praying Christian person who doesn't call on a doctor, a plumber, the bank (possibly), maybe even a solicitor, if they need to.  It's common sense.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

floo

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #203 on: October 03, 2016, 02:53:33 PM »
I think ST was being facetious Brownie.

Khatru

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #204 on: October 03, 2016, 09:44:30 PM »
I'm not condemning science though many of its scientists are questionable...I am questioning your combined abilities here, to put those facts and data points together and realise the scientific advantages of praying to God in the way Jesus taught us.

It seems to me that the Catholic confession, the Freudian psyco-analysis techniques, the Samaratans, all scientifically prove the value of prayer...especially when Biblical answers like forgiveness and turning the other cheek offer the best solution to many of our most distressing problems.

If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Dorothy Parker

Sassy

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #205 on: October 04, 2016, 01:50:28 AM »
If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals.

Why, do atheists count as Christians,Muslims, and why go to the believer?

I think you need to think that last statement through. :)

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Brownie

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #206 on: October 04, 2016, 05:15:10 AM »
I think ST was being facetious Brownie.

Not really floo though he may have been rolling his eyes when he typed it  :D.
It's not uncommon to ask why we do not petition God directly, or why we need to involve other agencies.  Indeed, there are some who don't go to anyone for help except God!  We've sometimes discussed them here, for example, those who don't avail themselves of medicine.   However people have a big role to play with different expertise. We help eachother.  Can you imagine going to the doctor and being told, "You don't need me!  Just go home and pray"?  (Bank manager might say that of course and would be saying it tongue in cheek.)
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

torridon

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #207 on: October 04, 2016, 07:02:13 AM »
The first thing we need to realise here is that Jesus Christ was not from this world. He was from another very advanced world...and so he was working from a very advanced world's knowledge base. Do you see how foolish you all are for not taking him seriously.

Prayer then is already an established method of communication on this world...Heaven..and obviously has scientific advantages...proven by Sigmund Freud...what more scientific answers do you need...unless you are just trying to muddy the waters.

The answers you supply aren't scientific at all Nick.  I don't think you even know what the word means.

Khatru

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #208 on: October 04, 2016, 10:05:31 AM »
Why, do atheists count as Christians,Muslims, and why go to the believer?

I think you need to think that last statement through. :)

I really don't know what you're on about here.

Here's my post again....

Quote
If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals.

Now then, let's look at this:

When people are really ill with a life-threatening condition, where do ambulances take them?

Think about it...

Yes, that's right. 

Ambulances take them to hospitals.

Well done!

Would you rather ambulances didn't go to hospitals and instead took people to places where they could be prayed over?

Now, please read my post again and tell me what the problem is.

"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Dorothy Parker

Sassy

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #209 on: October 05, 2016, 12:33:28 AM »
I really don't know what you're on about here.

Here's my post again....

Now then, let's look at this:

When people are really ill with a life-threatening condition, where do ambulances take them?

Think about it...

Yes, that's right. 

Ambulances take them to hospitals.

Well done!

Would you rather ambulances didn't go to hospitals and instead took people to places where they could be prayed over?

Now, please read my post again and tell me what the problem is.

No You realised you made a cock-up and tried to cover.

So let us make this clear. As an atheist who is seriously ill which do you want the ambulance to take to...the  churche, mosque, temple, etc, instead of the  hospital?

Your post was not rational, reasonable and made absolutely no sense when related to an atheist. Because the fact is, prayer works but you don't believe in it.

Hence why should it work for you when you are sick and don't believe.

I feel you understand now. No point in a reply because you never thought it out in the first instance. ???
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #210 on: October 05, 2016, 03:24:45 AM »
No You realised you made a cock-up and tried to cover.

So let us make this clear. As an atheist who is seriously ill which do you want the ambulance to take to...the  churche, mosque, temple, etc, instead of the  hospital?

Your post was not rational, reasonable and made absolutely no sense when related to an atheist. Because the fact is, prayer works but you don't believe in it.

Hence why should it work for you when you are sick and don't believe.

I feel you understand now. No point in a reply because you never thought it out in the first instance. ???
Where did the original post specifically mention atheists?
I'll give you a cue - it didn't.
You introduced the atheist angle, nobody else did.
Looks like you made a cock up and tried, rather unsuccessfully, to cover.

It was perfectly clear to any rational thinking human being what Khatru was referring to.
But I suppose that as you do not fall into that category then you might be excused!

No need to respond, to save yourself further embarrassment.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

floo

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #211 on: October 05, 2016, 08:43:36 AM »
No You realised you made a cock-up and tried to cover.

So let us make this clear. As an atheist who is seriously ill which do you want the ambulance to take to...the  churche, mosque, temple, etc, instead of the  hospital?

Your post was not rational, reasonable and made absolutely no sense when related to an atheist. Because the fact is, prayer works but you don't believe in it.

Hence why should it work for you when you are sick and don't believe.

I feel you understand now. No point in a reply because you never thought it out in the first instance. ???

Sass, it isn't Khatru who has cocked up!

Sassy

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #212 on: October 05, 2016, 11:18:34 AM »
Where did the original post specifically mention atheists?
I'll give you a cue - it didn't.
You introduced the atheist angle, nobody else did.
Looks like you made a cock up and tried, rather unsuccessfully, to cover.

It was perfectly clear to any rational thinking human being what Khatru was referring to.
But I suppose that as you do not fall into that category then you might be excused!

No need to respond, to save yourself further embarrassment.

Are you really willing to make yourself look as you do to argue something you know will make your remark look silly?



Here goes -What was actually said:-

Quote
If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals.

You see he referred to AMBULANCES  are you saying Atheists, Christians, Muslims and everyone doesn't use ambulances?
Or that only the religious use them. I think you need to think before you answer in support of someone who didn't get there own post or understand the implications of it, as you just repeated the same error.


He didn't mention any atheists, Christians, muslins etc. He included all by saying AMBULANCES.
Unless you want to state no human beings use ambulances. ??? :o
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #213 on: October 05, 2016, 11:21:37 AM »
Stop digging an even deeper hole for yourself Sass, I think all but you got completely what Khatru was talking about.

Khatru

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #214 on: October 05, 2016, 11:40:04 AM »
No You realised you made a cock-up and tried to cover.

So let us make this clear. As an atheist who is seriously ill which do you want the ambulance to take to...the  churche, mosque, temple, etc, instead of the  hospital?

Your post was not rational, reasonable and made absolutely no sense when related to an atheist. Because the fact is, prayer works but you don't believe in it.

Hence why should it work for you when you are sick and don't believe.

I feel you understand now. No point in a reply because you never thought it out in the first instance. ???

Sass, please pay attention.

My post was quite rational and easy to understand. 

Well, that's what I thought.

I'll make the same statement again.  Please read it carefully and try not to substitute it with a statement of your own.

Ready?

Here goes....

If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals.

Right.  Have you read my statement?

Now, forget about whether the sick person is religious or not, it makes no difference.

If prayer worked an ambulance could take a dangerously ill person to a place of prayer (church, mosque, temple, etc).  Once there, they could be prayed over by believers.  Then that person would be cured.

Of course we all know that prayer doesn't work because ambulances still take people to hospitals for medical treatment.

"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Dorothy Parker

floo

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #215 on: October 05, 2016, 11:43:21 AM »
Sass, please pay attention.

My post was quite rational and easy to understand. 

Well, that's what I thought.

I'll make the same statement again.  Please read it carefully and try not to substitute it with a statement of your own.

Ready?

Here goes....

If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals.

Right.  Have you read my statement?

Now, forget about whether the sick person is religious or not, it makes no difference.

If prayer worked an ambulance could take a dangerously ill person to a place of prayer (church, mosque, temple, etc).  Once there, they could be prayed over by believers.  Then that person would be cured.

Of course we all know that prayer doesn't work because ambulances still take people to hospitals for medical treatment.

You made yourself quite clear, I think Sass misread your post.

Khatru

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #216 on: October 05, 2016, 11:44:59 AM »
You made yourself quite clear, I think Sass misread your post.

Thanks!

I don't think Sass grasped the point I was making. 
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Dorothy Parker

floo

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #217 on: October 05, 2016, 11:49:50 AM »
Thanks!

I don't think Sass grasped the point I was making.

But as the rest of us did, don't worry about it. :)

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #218 on: October 05, 2016, 12:50:31 PM »
Are you really willing to make yourself look as you do to argue something you know will make your remark look silly?



Here goes -What was actually said:-

You see he referred to AMBULANCES  are you saying Atheists, Christians, Muslims and everyone doesn't use ambulances?
Or that only the religious use them. I think you need to think before you answer in support of someone who didn't get there own post or understand the implications of it, as you just repeated the same error.


He didn't mention any atheists, Christians, muslins etc. He included all by saying AMBULANCES.
Unless you want to state no human beings use ambulances. ??? :o
Not only have you got the wrong end of the stick, you have got the wrong stick.
In fact what you have is likely not even to be a stick!

You are just embarrassing yourself now. Please stop for your own sake.
Read the next few posts after your reply to mine and try not to make things worse with your obsession with having to be right all of the time.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 05:42:07 PM by Sebastian Toe »
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #219 on: October 05, 2016, 12:51:17 PM »
You made yourself quite clear, I think Sass misread your post.
Your powers of observation have not waned!
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Khatru

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #220 on: October 05, 2016, 05:00:51 PM »
Of course, if prayer truly worked, then the sheer number of people whose lives were saved by intercessory prayers would convince even the staunchest atheist that there may be a god, or indeed, gods.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Dorothy Parker

Sassy

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #221 on: October 08, 2016, 01:01:08 AM »
Sass, please pay attention.


KHATRU PAY ATTENTION.


Sassy
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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #205 on: October 04, 2016, 01:50:28 AM »

Quote
Quote from: Khatru on October 03, 2016, 09:44:30 PM
If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals.

Why, do atheists count as Christians,Muslims, and why go to the believer?

I think you need to think that last statement through. :)

The painstakingly obvious is that people relying on prayers don't call ambulances.
You don't need to take a sick person to any where to pray for them.
ATHEISTS do not believe so why take them in an ambulance to church.

Your statement made NO LOGICAL SENSE in the great scheme of things.
Atheists would never ask for prayer and would expect their ambulance to go to hospital.
Prayer does work but why would an ambulance be called and why would they take them to church?

And what church would you take an atheist to.

YOU started it! But you certainly never had the logic to follow through.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 11:28:32 AM by Sassy »
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #222 on: October 08, 2016, 08:28:13 AM »
Of course, if prayer truly worked, then the sheer number of people whose lives were saved by intercessory prayers would convince even the staunchest atheist that there may be a god, or indeed, gods.

True!

Khatru

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #223 on: October 09, 2016, 10:51:44 AM »
Quote
If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals

Let's have a look at what you've said....


The painstakingly obvious is that people relying on prayers don't call ambulances.

Do you rely on prayer?  If your nearest and dearest were to keel over with a heart attack or stroke, would you choose not to call an ambulance and opt for prayer instead?

Sadly, the list of dead believers that eschewed medical assistance for prayer isn't getting any smaller.  A sure sign that prayer doesn't work.

You don't need to take a sick person to any where to pray for them.

True but as per my original post, neither does it matter whether that person is an atheist.  If that person was in terrible pain or so seriously ill that death was likely, it would be prudent to go to a church, mosque, temple, etc so that person could get immediate prayer and be healed.  Well, it would be if prayer worked.

ATHEISTS do not believe so why take them in an ambulance to church.


Whether they believe or not, does it matter when your prayers could save their lives?  You claim that prayer works but you would withhold that prayer on the basis that someone doesn't believe?  That doesn't sound very Christian at all.

Also bear in mind that prayer works for other religions too, so it doesn't have to be a church.

Your statement made NO LOGICAL SENSE in the great scheme of things.

It makes perfectly good sense as shown by those who understood exactly what I was saying.  "The great scheme of things?  What would that be?

Atheists would never ask for prayer and would expect their ambulance to go to hospital.

That's right and that's exactly what happens.  Why?  Because prayer doesn't work.  If it did work then there would be no atheists and the NHS could get by on a minimal budget.  Pleas see my original post, oh, here it is again:

Quote
If prayer truly worked, ambulances would go to churches, mosques, temples, etc, instead of hospitals


Prayer does work but why would an ambulance be called and why would they take them to church?
 

Because if prayer works then why risk invasive and painful surgery? Why risk infection?   Why risk prescribing drugs which may or may not work?  All this could be avoided if prayer worked.

And what church would you take an atheist to.

As I said, it doesn't matter whether the person believes or not, the issue at hand is to prevent pain and death by curing that person.  Whether it's a church, temple, mosque, etc, it matters not, just take them to whatever place of worship is nearest where they can be cured by prayer.

YOU started it! But you certainly never had the logic to follow through.

Actually, I do. 
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Dorothy Parker

Sassy

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Re: Why do Christians pray to their god?
« Reply #224 on: October 09, 2016, 11:36:45 AM »
No! Khatru,

Why do you want to try and riddle out of the fact you got it all wrong?
Why not just admit you could not think of it, to include the actual power of prayer
or what the bible teaches about it.

You see believers do not have to go anywhere.
Prayers/Petitions can be said/made anywhere.
God is everywhere... in all places at all times.

You are limited by your own understanding and lack of knowledge.
But believers are not limited nor are the imprisoned by the world and it's ways.
Our God hears us wherever we are...
Quote
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

To pray for healing requires NO ambulance journey, no temple or Church.
It requires only a prayer to the God who is right there where we are.

And as I said ATHEISTS need their ambulance because they would not go to a Church or ask or believe in prayer.

You spoke in haste from the purely human side of your understanding. That is what you do but to try and fit it in with the Christian understanding is impossible. Light and Darkness do not mix they exist individually but never in the same place.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."