Alpha

[Jack Knave]

How do they recruit for it, I've never seen it advertised or anything anywhere.

[Gordon]

I'd also like to thank Enki for an informative and interesting account.

Taken together with the blog mentioned previously, which I'm working my way through, my impression is that this Alpha course is in essence preaching to the converted and is doing so via the same tired old fallacies we see trotted out by some theists here.

[ProfessorDavey]

How do they recruit for it, I've never seen it advertised or anything anywhere.

Most churches that run the course have huge banners advertising it.

And often use rather disingenuous marketing along the line of 'Explore the meaning of life' etc rather than being clear that it is a specifically christian course with such basic assumptions simply accepted, with very little tolerance (as we've heard on this thread) for those who might challenge those basic assumptions - starting with the assumption that god exists and points thereafter.

[Shaker]

I've seen the banners and posters all over the shop, albeit more so a few years ago than recently.

[Rhiannon]

Bear Grylls was their poster boy at one point.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'd also like to thank Enki for an informative and interesting account.

Taken together with the blog mentioned previously, which I'm working my way through, my impression is that this Alpha course is in essence preaching to the converted and is doing so via the same tired old fallacies we see trotted out by some theists here.

That would be the 'belief in God fallacy' no doubt.
Can you explain again why God does not exist, only this time without some of the arse clenching category blunders.

[Gordon]

That would be the 'belief in God fallacy' no doubt.
Can you explain again why God does not exist, only this time without some of the arse clenching category blunders.

You are inviting me to commit the negative proof fallacy, Vlad, so I'll decline the invitation.

As regards your god the burden of proof is yours, and not mine.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You are inviting me to commit the negative proof fallacy, Vlad, so I'll decline the invitation.

As regards your god the burden of proof is yours, and not mine.

Yes, just like your ontological naturalism.

Look Gordon I do not believe Leprechauns exist. I cannot absolutely prove it but I can give supporting argument for my assertion, so if I can do that you can give an equal account.....instead of a cop out.

[Rhiannon]

An interesting but saddening thing as identified by both Brownie and enki is that Alpha seems to draw emotionally labile people who have had, or still have, some sort of emotional distress - a bereavement, difficulties with drink and/or other drugs, mental illness or perhaps simple loneliness, etc. Doubtless this is common to religions generally but it's typically the sort of thing more usually associated with cults and NRMs (new religious movements).

No truly compassionate person would ever wish to separate such a person from whatever blandishments their religious adherence supplies (which in a great many cases - perhaps all? - probably stems from human contact and a sense of community rather than beliefs), but on the doxological level alone, to this particular sceptical brain a belief system which seems to become credible only in times of emotional upset and rootlessness rather than standing on its own merits has nothing to commend it.

A big feature of the stories in Alpha News was always the part where the recipient 'received the Spirit'. The testimonies are chosen with care - people explaining how they came to leave lives of crime, abuse, addiction etc - and the common thread is a turning point at which they feel loved by God, and a sense of peace and happiness.

As you say, why not? Until you read the Alpha materials and look at how they operate.

[Rhiannon]

That takes the biscuit.  I'm lost for words!

Tell me about it.

He was in his curacy still so easy to get rid of. Ironically I've met only a handful of Christians who walk the talk as well as he does - he came to the priesthood late in life  and when here he lived off his pension rather than claiming the salary to which he was entitled, on the basis that it paid for another position in a deprived part of the diocese.

He also swears like a trooper, drinks whisky and bases his sermons on the latest episode of Coronation St.

[Gordon]

Yes, just like your ontological naturalism.

Look Gordon I do not believe Leprechauns exist. I cannot absolutely prove it but I can give supporting argument for my assertion, so if I can do that you can give an equal account.....instead of a cop out.

On you go then: provide a supporting argument for your assertion regarding Leprechauns and we'll all have a look at what you produce.

[Shaker]

Tell me about it.

He was in his curacy still so easy to get rid of. Ironically I've met only a handful of Christians who walk the talk as well as he does - he came to the priesthood late in life  and when here he lived off his pension rather than claiming the salary to which he was entitled, on the basis that it paid for another position in a deprived part of the diocese.

He also swears like a trooper, drinks whisky and bases his sermons on the latest episode of Coronation St.

Sign me up (with a few caveats).

[Brownie]

Has he ever got drunk on Newton and Ridley's I wonder?  Someone closely associated with me did that aged 15 on a school trip to Granada Studios. 

Sounds like a decent bloke Rhiannon.  It doesn't make sense that the church hierarchies would believe the Alpha people and not take his side.  Or at least sit on the fence and let him stay.  Still he may have moved on to a better billet.

I looked up Alpha to see what's new and a church near to me holds regular courses.  They also do something called ''Young Alpha'' which is for teenagers.  On the main Alpha site ''Alpha for Children'' was mentioned .  Presumably the latter do not have an away with spirit weekend.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

On you go then: provide a supporting argument for your assertion regarding Leprechauns and we'll all have a look at what you produce.

I believe that in a way that you ignored or failed to understand I asked you for a justification of your ontological naturalism....and I asked you first.

I have frequently made argument against Leprechauns when I harpoon Bluehillside everytime he dares to mention them.

Ireland is not the Amazon jungle and whereas there may be as yet new irish microbial species you can bet your antitheist arse that were Leprechauns, a diminutive hominid species existent, Attenborough would have done The Life of Leprechauns.

[Rhiannon]

Has he ever got drunk on Newton and Ridley's I wonder?  Someone closely associated with me did that aged 15 on a school trip to Granada Studios. 

Sounds like a decent bloke Rhiannon.  It doesn't make sense that the church hierarchies would believe the Alpha people and not take his side.  Or at least sit on the fence and let him stay.  Still he may have moved on to a better billet.

I looked up Alpha to see what's new and a church near to me holds regular courses.  They also do something called ''Young Alpha'' which is for teenagers.  On the main Alpha site ''Alpha for Children'' was mentioned .  Presumably the latter do not have an away with spirit weekend.

It wasn't so much a matter of who was believed or not. I mean, what was to be proven one way or the other? But the congregation were hungry for the charismatic 'receiving the spirit' experience and what rational thought was there quickly evaporated.

[Gordon]

I believe that in a way that you ignored or failed to understand I asked you for a justification of your ontological naturalism....and I asked you first.

I have frequently made argument against Leprechauns when I harpoon Bluehillside everytime he dares to mention them.

Ireland is not the Amazon jungle and whereas there may be as yet new irish microbial species you can bet your antitheist arse that were Leprechauns, a diminutive hominid species existent, Attenborough would have done The Life of Leprechauns.

You seem oddly preoccupied by Leprechauns, unlike me.

So, are you going to regale us with something worthy of discussion, or do you intent to just bluster and rant?

[Shaker]

I'll have £20 on Blusteran Rant to win, please.

[Gordon]

I'll have £20 on Blusteran Rant to win, please.

Sadly old 'Bluster' has been out of form for some time now.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You seem oddly preoccupied by Leprechauns, unlike me.

So, are you going to regale us with something worthy of discussion, or do you intent to just bluster and rant?

No obsession
No bluster
No rant.................... Gordon.

Sorry to disappoint.

[Shaker]

No obsession
No bluster
No rant.................... Gordon.

Sorry to disappoint.

No disappointment; it'll only last until the next post where you dredge up ontological/philosophical naturalism/materialism, antitheism, Stalinism and all the rest of the meaningless, empty tropes and misunderstood-slogans-instead-of-argument and we'll be back to normal.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No disappointment; it'll only last until the next post where you dredge up ontological/philosophical naturalism/materialism, antitheism, Stalinism and all the rest of the meaningless, empty tropes and misunderstood-slogans-instead-of-argument and we'll be back to normal.

But that's your belief guys.....to pretend not to have ontological naturalism ''something chronic'' is to merely play the evasive gobshite.

[Shaker]

Not many people seem to give a monkey's as much as you do on a daily basis, Vladdychops

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not many people seem to give a monkey's as much as you do on a daily basis, Vladdychops

So....obviously evasive gobshittery abounds then........

[Brownie]

It wasn't so much a matter of who was believed or not. I mean, what was to be proven one way or the other? But the congregation were hungry for the charismatic 'receiving the spirit' experience and what rational thought was there quickly evaporated.

That explains it.  Some church congregations do have that tendancy, the one not far from me, who do Alpha courses, are a bit like that.  I've never been there but have heard about and know a couple of people who do attend.

I wonder if that church is any the better for the experience?  Or if people have become disillusioned.

Anyway I hope your friend's next church suited him better.  It must have been a sad beginning to his ministry.

[Rhiannon]

The poor bloke ended up here.