New set of Commandments

[Bubbles]

Rose,

That's you talking bullshit.

I know I can't control my car properly if I'm farting about with music or sweets. So I don't do it. End of.

You can't see the play on fear in the mobile advert?

Have another look at it?

Seriously?

You can call it bullshit all you like, but the fear is there.

For some reason, I think it scares you, to admit you see it.

[Rhiannon]

Probably just as well, because I think you see everything as a form of abuse.

You haven't fallen in love with someone and felt how nervous that feeling can be?

Initially anyway, until it deepens.

You really are a piece of work.

[Udayana]

Looking back ... I can see she lives in fear of vegetarians ... so that might explain it!

[Bubbles]

The trouble is no one else will now be prepared to look at the mobile advert and post if they thought there was an element of fear in it, for fear of the usual bullying, that goes on when certain members with their politically correct ideas don't get agreed with.

Never mind I know some people do see it , cos they let me know

I'll take some advice and bow out now

[Rhiannon]

You are so frightened of thinking about lives that might take you out of your bubble that it makes you a bully, Rose.

Imagine this...hearing the key of the person who says he loves you in your own front door after a night in the pub and it scares the shit out of you...dreading what's coming..fear and love go together? Really?

[Bubbles]

You are so frightened of thinking about lives that might take you out of your bubble that it makes you a bully, Rose.

Imagine this...hearing the key of the person who says he loves you in your own front door after a night in the pub and it scares the shit out of you...dreading what's coming..fear and love go together? Really?

It's not me that's being the bully here.

I post my own experiences of first love, you basically disrespect and trash it. Because you can't understand it or what you do understand is twisted.

You always go jumping in to cases of domestic abuse or something else like that, it's you that's the bully Rhiannon, because you can't bear someone else to have a different experience to yourself.

It's really sad that you have to twist someone else's wonderful experience of first love into something about something nasty.

I'm sorry you don't understand what I was expressing, and the fact I don't see it in the same way you do.

Do you normally go through life trashing things for other people when they describe their own feelings?

Sometimes when people fall in love they are almost afraid to talk to each other.

Just because it isn't something you felt, doesn't mean you should trash it and drag it in the gutter for everyone else.

I'm sure a number of people have felt those butterflies when you fall in love, most people would understand. It is a kind of fear.

But not you.

You have to make it something really nasty.

Says a lot about you.

If you don't mind, I'll back off now because you obviously are intent on your horror stories..(... Imagine this.....)

I don't want my relationships brought down to your level.

Subject closed!

[Rhiannon]

Like I said. Piece of work.

It's because your 'first love' wasn't fear based -social anxiety based, yes - that it wasn't abusive. But you are too blinkered and ignorant to think anything else other than that I was 'trashing' your story.

Funny how you can watch people dying in a tv ad yet you can't bring yourself to imagine the reality of domestic violence.

[Bubbles]

Like I said. Piece of work.

It's because your 'first love' wasn't fear based -social anxiety based, yes - that it wasn't abusive. But you are too blinkered and ignorant to think anything else other than that I was 'trashing' your story.

Funny how you can watch people dying in a tv ad yet you can't bring yourself to imagine the reality of domestic violence.

I don't need to imagine the reality of domestic violence.

It isn't me that's ignorant, I'm not accusing people of living in bubbles and degrading their first love experience and comparing it to domestic violence.

I wasn't discussing domestic violence until you brought it up( I wonder why, it was irrelevant !)

If you have finished using the topic of domestic violence to bully and victimise me now, perhaps we can move on.

You have no idea what things I have come across in my life, and I have no intention of sharing with you thanks.

[Rhiannon]

Nowhere did I compare your experience to dv. My post (6.48) made it clear that it wasn't and it was you that said I saw abuse in all situations (your post made at 4.49) What I didn't say but should have is that in describing social anxiety as fear you were wrong, but more importantly denigrating those situations where love and fear really are mixed up.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Fear is not a bad word. It is a very important and natural emotion that serves to motivate us (albeit perceived as negative) in certain directions.  Fear is a natural means of control and caution. Fear is what often helps organisms to survive. Fear of the law, social disapproval and even sometimes the displeasure of others..... lends caution and thoughtfulness to our actions.

Fear does not mean terror or horror.  And fear is not necessarily indicative of something wrong or abnormal or criminal.  Fear and respect often go hand in hand.

People here seem to be averse to fear as a natural emotion. I can understand why.

The need to be self willed, aversion to fear and discipline are all part of the adolescent stage of growth. They go hand in hand with skepticism, cynicism and rebellion. All part of the same second stage mindset. This also shows itself as anti religion because religion is about controls and discipline (individual and social). So..the fact that many people here show such aversion to fear is not unexpected.

But this does not mean all these persons are themselves free of fear or that their day to day behavior is entirely self willed and born of some innate wisdom and goodness.   They will be as much governed by fear as anyone else...just that they don't want to admit it because of their adolescent sense of pride and self image. They like to perceive their behavior as their own chosen way of life rather than as forced by social controls. This is just being in denial of a natural emotion and nothing more.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

Sriram



 


 












 

[Rhiannon]

There is a difference between feeling fear and imposing fear onto someone or something else.

[Sriram]

India is a good example. The caste system maintains good order in society even though it is illegal! Everyone knows their place. Social norms ensure that there is no corruption, exploitation or other anti-social activity.

Women are modest and refrain from baring themselves in public thus there is no risk of sexual molestation or rape, even kissing is strongly discouraged. In some cities there are even gangs of the devout roaming around making sure everyone is well behaved. Homosexuality is unmentionable, so doesn't exist. All children are devoted to their studies and never fail in their exams. All old people are well taken care of, so old women don't have to scrounge a living by working as labourers on building sites!

And so on... the wonderful benefits of fear and social disapproval

Maybe we should have more fear here, to make sure teenage girls are kept safe off the streets and so on?

Look ...

Idealistic sets of rules which can be interpreted at whim and used to force people to conform to the will of charismatic leaders are no way to run society. What is needed are democratically agreed laws that are enforced fairly and transparently by accountable police and judicial systems

Uday,

LOL! Your attitude in fact shows a fear of being identified with India. You try to distance yourself every opportunity you can....however irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

It is a pre-independence mindset wherein some Indians preferred to identify and align themselves with the British masters and not with India and Indians.

Typically they chose to think and live like Britishers and mocked at everything Indian (sometimes living in Britain and sometimes living in India itself). A nice attitude....I think not!

Most Indians don't have any quarrel with Britishers but we do loathe such 'Britishers' as yourself. No offence!

Well....India is now doing very well, no thanks to people like you....who can never be true Indians or true Britishers or true anything else for that matter. 

Cheers.

Sriram

[Udayana]

lol, Sriram, now trying to intimidate me? To what end ...?

As a Hindu you should study your own religion to understand how fears are born out of superstition and ignorance.

http://www.gitananda.org/fearlessness/index.php

"There is built-in fear in sexual and other enjoyments.
There is fear of downfall in taking pride in one's family name and fame.
There is fear of King's or Government's taking away our accumulated (stolen) wealth.
There is fear of infamy in seeking honor in the society.
There is fear of enemies in our pride of strength whether individual or national.
There is fear of loosing beauty due to approaching old-age.
There is fear of others outsmarting us by logic and arguments, if we think of ourselves as experts.
There is fear of downfall if we constantly think of our virtues and merits.
There is built-in fear of death of this body, processes and any other worldly objects.
Truly, there is built-in fear in everything on this earth for human beings.
Renunciation alone is fearlessness."

Follow the example of Ashoka, renouncing violence to try and spread harmony, or the mythological heroes, who face  and battle evils and monsters, following duty often at enormous cost, not cower before them, as our ancestors did before the Moslem invaders and British thieves - and, as your recent governments have, before the gangsters that drain the country of strength.

[Udayana]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/hindu2/2014/09/swami-vivekananda-quotes-thoughts/

"Swami Vivekananda Quotes About Fear

Fear is death, fear is sin, fear is hell, fear is unrighteousness, and fear is wrong life. All the negative thoughts and ideas that are in the world have proceeded from this evil spirit of fear.

If there is one word that you find coming out like a bomb from the Upanishads, bursting like a bombshell upon masses of ignorance, it is the word “fearlessness.”

First, believe in the world—that there is meaning behind everything.

“Face the brutes.” That is a lesson for all life—face the terrible, face it boldly. Like the monkeys, the hardships of life fall back when we cease to flee before them.

As long as we believe ourselves to be even the least different from God, fear remains with us; but when we know ourselves to be the One, fear goes; of what can we be afraid?

Desire, ignorance, and inequality—this is the trinity of bondage.

Great work requires great and persistent effort for a long time. … Character has to be established through a thousand stumbles.

Learning and wisdom are superfluities, the surface glitter merely, but it is the heart that is the seat of all power.

This is the great lesson that we are here to learn through myriads of births and heavens and hells—that there is nothing to be asked for, desired for, beyond one’s spiritual Self (atman).

Stand as a rock; you are indestructible. You are the Self (atman), the God of the universe.

If superstition enters, the brain is gone."

[Rhiannon]

Very interesting stuff, Udayana, thank you.

[Sriram]

Uday,

You probably don't realize what you have written.

You have written exactly what I have said. Fear is a natural emotion and nothing to be denied. It is everywhere and in every experience. Being rid of fear is an ultimate inner condition....an innate awareness and freedom that is not ordinary.

Fear is inevitable as long as we have needs and desires. They are two sides of the same coin. If you have needs and desires of any kind....there will be a fear associated with it. It is natural.

Only if one eliminates all needs and desires can one be free from fear. That is the aim and goal of spirituality....and 'fearlessness' is one definition of Mukti or Final Liberation.

So...unless you are claiming that all of you here are Self Realized sages who have eliminated their natural needs....you cannot help feeling fear. So stop denying it!

[Udayana]

Sriram, I don't think that anyone here has denied that they have fears. Personally I have many - but none of them involves or requires the following or breaking of any laws reasonably arrived at.

As Rhi said:

There is a difference between feeling fear and imposing fear onto someone or something else.

All people have fears, it does not mean that you should use them to impose your desires on them or control them using social disapproval or punishment.

[Sriram]

Sriram, I don't think that anyone here has denied that they have fears. Personally I have many - but none of them involves or requires the following or breaking of any laws reasonably arrived at.

As Rhi said:

All people have fears, it does not mean that you should use them to impose your desires on them or control them using social disapproval or punishment.

What are you talking about? You are still thinking of Hitler and Saddam Hussain I suppose! 

Fear is a natural emotion and we cannot escape it. It is not some monstrous abnormality or aberration as some on here seem to think.  Almost all our day to day activities  will involve fear or anxiety or apprehension of some kind....which is a form of negative motivation. 

One does not have to impose it. Where ever discipline or self control or adhering to someone else's wishes is  called for....fear and apprehension is automatically there.  Being in denial of it is ridiculous! 

[Udayana]

What I'm talking about is your assertion that more arbitrary sets of rules and fear of punishment is what is needed to keep a well ordered and harmonious society. And I have suggested plenty of examples in your own society, where this idea is clearly not working.

How do you think the present Police and legal system maintain order....through heartfelt respect for discipline??!!  LOL!

For most people its always fear that elicits obedience and discipline. Very few people would be able to maintain order and discipline on their own.

You are getting too much into semantics. Fear can obviously be taken to extremes like everything else. But fear is what normally establishes order. 

Fear is what makes a toddler drink his milk. Fear is what makes a 5 year old go to bed on time. Fear is what makes a teenager avoid drinking and driving. Fear is what makes a boy avoid forcing himself on his girlfriend. Fear is what makes people drive carefully. Fear is what makes people pay their taxes.
...

It's rational and fair legal systems that keep society working, and gangsters and rapists that use blackmail and violence or threats of violence, exploiting peoples natural fears, to undermine it.
 

[Sriram]

?  ?  ?  ?  ?

[Bubbles]

https://home.isi.org/what-role-fear-law

[OH MY WORLD!]

Well there has been an advertisement running here for a while about getting the shingles vaccination. Let me tell you Rhi and Shaker, the ads are pretty intense and I betcha after watching those commercials many have gone and got the shot. Before that ad ran, who would have been afraid of the shingles, and known to get the shot, not a lot. I didn't, and I had no Idea that there was a shot I could get. So I went and came down with the shingles and it was all through my scalp and one side of my face and I lost the use of one eye for a couple of weeks. I can provide you a picture of my monster face. So here is the ads and they do put fear in people to go out and take the shot. Rose is quite correct, fear ads can make us think and act. I really don't know why you two fear the fear ads. Believe me if fear ads didn't work, money wouldn't be spent on making them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hny4VnIEmjM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS24xTvc-Nw

[OH MY WORLD!]

I reject the positive spin on India's caste system.
In this weeks Economist Mag.

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21693613-higher-castes-demanding-lower-status-make-mockery-positive-discrimination-backward-ho

[Shaker]

I can provide you a picture of my monster face.

No it's OK - nobody would be able to tell the difference between before and after anyway.

[Bubbles]

No it's OK - nobody would be able to tell the difference between before and after anyway.

Oy!

That's not nice 

Shingles is nasty, it can cause blindness