Moving on

[Walt Zingmatilder]

David Eagleman touched on the possibility of immortality in his last episode of The Brain.  In a sense, the 'person' that we are, is an information product, essentially, information currently written on organic compounds, so we could in principle capture that information and 'resurrect' it perhaps using a novel substrate such as silicon technology.  There are quite a few already dead people in cryogenic storage who were hoping for some such technological resurrection in the future. My guess is these individuals have no hope, the information capture would have needed to be done before death and much of it is now destroyed through the freezing process. That doesn't mean that improved procedures in the future will not be able to 'capture' a person and store it on file.

But resurrection is impossible according to antitheists on this board like Gordon.

I think there is also question of where the information actually is at anyone time and the substrate vs organisation question.

[torridon]

But resurrection is impossible according to antitheists on this board like Gordon.

I think there is also question of where the information actually is at anyone time and the substrate vs organisation question.

Impossible with our current primitive technology.  Maybe far in the future when granny dies we can save her into the DropBox account until a new starter body becomes available and then it will be a copy/paste job under Windows 1000000.01; maybe there will be new options under Paste Special then : paste all, paste memories, paste the nice bits only ....

[ippy]

Ippy, the idea of Heaven is that we will all get on, no more conflict.  What is important to us now will not be when we are there.  So.....we can't imagine it, it's beyond us.

Thanks for the Billy Graham link, OMW. 
Mr Graham hasn't said much, wisely, except that it is all beyond our imagination.

Best to concentrate on what we have now.

Sririam, thank

Yes the idea of heaven, Mr Brownie.

ippy

[Brownie]

Yes, that's what I said ippy.  And I ain't a bloke!

[ippy]

Yes, that's what I said ippy.  And I ain't a bloke!

Apologies Ms Brownie, but it does remain an idea, that's all, an unsupported and unsupportable idea.

ippy

[Brownie]

I wasn't trying to support it Ippy, merely saying what I would like in the afterworld, if it turns out that there is one.

[SweetPea]

.......
Sririam, thanks for links etc.  I will read further.

Brownie, regards NDEs, the work of Pim van Lommel is something else to look-up:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Consciousness-Beyond-Life-Near-Death-Experience/dp/0061777269

[Bubbles]

A cat dies and goes to Heaven. God meets him at the gate and says,'you have been a good cat all of these years. Anything you desire is yours,all you have to do is ask.' The cat says,'Well, I lived all my life with a poor family on a farm and had to sleep on hardwood floors.' God says,'Say no more.' And instantly, a fluffy pillow appears.

A few days later,6 mice are killed in a tragic accident and they go to Heaven. God meets them at the gate with the same offer that He made the cat. The mice said,'All our lives we've had to run. Cats,dogs and even women with brooms have chased us. If we could only have a pair of roller skates,we wouldn't have to run anymore.' God says,'Say no more.' And instantly, each mouse is fitted with a beautiful pair of tiny roller skates.

About a week later,God decides to check and see how the cat is doing. The cat is sound asleep on his new pillow. God gently wakes him and asks,'How are you doing? Are you happy here?' The cat yawns and stretches and says,'Oh,I've never been happier in my life. And those Meals on Wheels you've been sending over are the best!'

[Bubbles]

For me there would have to be a sense of humour 

[Bubbles]

Two priests die at the same time and meet St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter says, "I'd like to get you guys in now but our computers are down. You'll have to go back to Earth for about a week, but you can't go back as humans. What'll it be?"
      The first priest says, "I've always wanted to be an eagle, soaring above the Rocky Mountains."
      "So be it," says St. Peter, and off flies the first priest.
      The second priest mulls this over for a moment and asks, "Will you be keeping track of us, St. Peter ?"
      "No, I told you the computer is down. There's no way we can keep track of what you are doing. This week's a freebie."
      "In that case," says the second priest, "I've always wanted to be a stud."
      "So be it," says St. Peter, and the second priest disappears.
      A week goes by, the computer is fixed and the Lord tells St. Peter to recall the two priests.
      "Will you have trouble locating them?" He asks.
      "The first one should be easy," says St. Peter. "He's somewhere over the Rocky Mountains, flying with the eagles. But the second one could prove to be more difficult."
      "Why?" asks the Lord.
      "Because he's on a snow tire somewhere in Alaska."

[floo]

Two priests die at the same time and meet St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter says, "I'd like to get you guys in now but our computers are down. You'll have to go back to Earth for about a week, but you can't go back as humans. What'll it be?"
      The first priest says, "I've always wanted to be an eagle, soaring above the Rocky Mountains."
      "So be it," says St. Peter, and off flies the first priest.
      The second priest mulls this over for a moment and asks, "Will you be keeping track of us, St. Peter ?"
      "No, I told you the computer is down. There's no way we can keep track of what you are doing. This week's a freebie."
      "In that case," says the second priest, "I've always wanted to be a stud."
      "So be it," says St. Peter, and the second priest disappears.
      A week goes by, the computer is fixed and the Lord tells St. Peter to recall the two priests.
      "Will you have trouble locating them?" He asks.
      "The first one should be easy," says St. Peter. "He's somewhere over the Rocky Mountains, flying with the eagles. But the second one could prove to be more difficult."
      "Why?" asks the Lord.
      "Because he's on a snow tire somewhere in Alaska."

 

[Leonard James]

Two priests die at the same time and meet St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter says, "I'd like to get you guys in now but our computers are down. You'll have to go back to Earth for about a week, but you can't go back as humans. What'll it be?"
      The first priest says, "I've always wanted to be an eagle, soaring above the Rocky Mountains."
      "So be it," says St. Peter, and off flies the first priest.
      The second priest mulls this over for a moment and asks, "Will you be keeping track of us, St. Peter ?"
      "No, I told you the computer is down. There's no way we can keep track of what you are doing. This week's a freebie."
      "In that case," says the second priest, "I've always wanted to be a stud."
      "So be it," says St. Peter, and the second priest disappears.
      A week goes by, the computer is fixed and the Lord tells St. Peter to recall the two priests.
      "Will you have trouble locating them?" He asks.
      "The first one should be easy," says St. Peter. "He's somewhere over the Rocky Mountains, flying with the eagles. But the second one could prove to be more difficult."
      "Why?" asks the Lord.
      "Because he's on a snow tire somewhere in Alaska."

It's about time somebody invented a decent vocabulary where each word meant one thing only. 

[Shaker]

It's about time somebody invented a decent vocabulary where each word meant one thing only. 

Ah, but then we'd end up with Newspeak in Nineteen Eighty-Four, and that's no language that I'd want to speak.

[Leonard James]

Ah, but then we'd end up with Newspeak in Nineteen Eighty-Four, and that's no language that I'd want to speak.

If I were younger and more energetic, Steve, I would  investigate that, but I'm taking the easy way out, 

[Shaker]

Allow me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

[Rhiannon]

It's about time somebody invented a decent vocabulary where each word meant one thing only. 

Len, the richness of our (often infuriating) language is a joy. Sometimes looking for words reminds me of the way children try to grab dandelion seeds blowing on the wind. Just do it for fun.

[Leonard James]

Allow me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

Thank you mate, but I only got about a third of the way through before boredom overtook me.

Now I'm sorry I suggested it in the first place! 

[Sriram]

Floo,

The Hindu belief is that there are seven worlds (Bhu, Bhuvar, Swar, Mahar, Jana, Tapa and Satya).  The seventh is the highest (probably the term  'Seventh Heaven' comes from this).  Different people go to different worlds after death depending on their spiritual levels. They all come back to this world again and again in different bodies so as to mix and learn and progress further.

Their birth will depend on their karma and their specific need to experience and learn. These things happen automatically and does not need any God to decide. Just as lighter object float and heavier objects sink.

The higher the spiritual level a person is in...the longer they will take to reincarnate. Time scales are different at different levels because change happens more slowly at higher levels compared to lower levels. 

When people progress beyond the Satya level...they do not come back to earth. This is eternal freedom or Liberation.

FYI.

[Brownie]

That's interesting Sriram, does anyone have an idea of what eternal freedom and liberation will be like?  My mum used to say, ''No-one has been back to tell us'', I wonder if it is the same for Hindus or if some Hindus have, or believe they have, more insight.  Thanks.

[Sriram]

That's interesting Sriram, does anyone have an idea of what eternal freedom and liberation will be like?  My mum used to say, ''No-one has been back to tell us'', I wonder if it is the same for Hindus or if some Hindus have, or believe they have, more insight.  Thanks.

Nothing extraordinary I expect. There are parts of it in your current personality already.

It is a development, evolution or progression from an ignorant, self centric and need based living to a more universal, wise and  selfless living. Its a growing up!

We already know how that will be except that now we also have the selfish, ignorant and pleasure seeking part attached which keeps demanding its share of the attention. Just imagine that the latter part falls off....that's what Liberation will be like. 

Problem is that it doesn't just fall off. It has to erode and disintegrate over several births.

[Brownie]

I'm fascinated Sriram, thank you.
Also thank you to SweetPea for the book recommendation, of which I have made a note.

[Leonard James]

Floo,

The Hindu belief is that there are seven worlds (Bhu, Bhuvar, Swar, Mahar, Jana, Tapa and Satya).  The seventh is the highest (probably the term  'Seventh Heaven' comes from this).  Different people go to different worlds after death depending on their spiritual levels. They all come back to this world again and again in different bodies so as to mix and learn and progress further.

Their birth will depend on their karma and their specific need to experience and learn. These things happen automatically and does not need any God to decide. Just as lighter object float and heavier objects sink.

The higher the spiritual level a person is in...the longer they will take to reincarnate. Time scales are different at different levels because change happens more slowly at higher levels compared to lower levels. 

When people progress beyond the Satya level...they do not come back to earth. This is eternal freedom or Liberation.

FYI.

Good gawd! I would have said you couldn't even dream it up ... but somebody has. 

[Brownie]

Isn't it pleasant though, Len?

[Leonard James]

Isn't it pleasant though, Len?

Yes, but so is a lot of fiction, providing we don't actually believe it true.

[torridon]

Isn't it pleasant though, Len?

That captures a lot of why humans entertain such an extraordinary diversity of beliefs.  'I like to think so ...' sums up the reason many beliefs are held. Just as we decorate our houses with furniture to suit, wall-hangings from that market in Bangkok, a nice carpet picked up in Ankara, we fit out our heads with beliefs we are comfortable with, and quite often, it doesn't really matter to the individual whether they are really true or not.