Trust those 'Aha' moments.

[Nearly Sane]

And that's the problem to an extent with all of this. Actual aha moments seem to me not that easy to define, and are evaluated by a non aha process. That we use that as a process to evaluate such things seems an issue with what is being claimed. 

[wigginhall]

I think that psychotic people have Aha moments, and express them vigorously.   Big deal.   They don't have the ability to stand back and evaluate them, but then plenty of non-psychotic people are the same. 

I would think that many violent acts represent Aha moments, but generally we are not in favour of them.   Instead of hitting your wife, count to ten, and rethink it.   

[wigginhall]

This brings to mind the history of therapy, as after the war, there was a reaction against psychoanalysis and psychiatry, seen as too intellectual.   So there was a turn to 'feel, don't think',  encounter groups, blissed up week-ends, the importance of intuition, and the like.   Have a look at R. D. Laing for a sophisticated example of this. 

Some of this was good, but it went too far, and people began to realize that you have to think as well as feel or intuit, otherwise there is chaos.   So there has been a kind of fusion of the two sides, so-called integrative therapy. 

[Bubbles]

I was thinking about some of the Aha moments I had, when I was young, which turned into disastrous decisions.  You name it, I cocked it up - in relationships, property buying, employment.

It didn't make me reject intuition, but I have a healthy skepticism towards it now, and tend to think hard about Aha moments, and also sleep on them, speaking of which,  those blonde girls at university, damn it, what's wrong with a few mistakes like that?

Yes, we tend to forget those( or pretend to ) , the "Aha"  moments that leave us feeling ridiculous.

The one where a shortcut, turns out to be a slurry pit 

[Nearly Sane]

One of the most common aha moments I see involves an approach which is 'We must do something, this is something, we must do this'

[Rhiannon]

As someone who has anxiety, to varying degrees, I agree with that, NS - it's a classic example of where feelings lead you in completely the wrong direction.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm also interested in whether we can really feel confident that non aha moments (and I keep getting a bizarre cross breed between Morten Harket and Alan Partridge on mind when writing here) are actually just as much aha moments but are post rationalisations.

[Rhiannon]

Morten Harket...lovely place, got a nice tea room.

I think (hahahaha) that it's all bollocks. Sometimes we produce beauty, other times it's a car crash. The important thing, it seems, is to find the way of bollockery that produces more of the former.

[Nearly Sane]

Morten Harket...lovely place, got a nice tea room.

I think (hahahaha) that it's all bollocks. Sometimes we produce beauty, other times it's a car crash. The important thing, it seems, is to find the way of bollockery that produces more of the former.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q_rbjg2k6cI

[Rhiannon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q_rbjg2k6cI

Pretty much. 

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

First of all....I don't think some people here understand what the 'Aha' moment is. Its not just any old impulse that you feel. We can have sudden natural impulses, instinctive urges, methodical thinking and 'Aha' moments.   They are all different.

Our mind is composed of so many levels with all of them impacting us together that it is often difficult to separate them all out. This is where Yoga and meditation help.  They help in controlling all the noise and clutter after which it becomes easier to separate the different parts.

Secondly, its clear that even though many people here normally swear by science and scientific methods....they will finally pick and choose what suits them and their comfort levels....and to hell with scientific findings!   

I have written about the Unconscious Mind  many times before and about how  it seems to take decisions before the conscious mind is aware of it. We have also seen how the Unconscious mind is better at forecasting future events than the conscious mind. We have also seen how the Unconscious mind is probably responsible for the placebo effect. Refer earlier threads.

We have gotten used to thinking of the Unconscious Mind as a subsidiary store house of the Conscious mind. This is most likely incorrect. The Unconscious Mind is much larger and much more powerful than the Conscious Mind and the Conscious mind is probably just the front office.  Some people say that the Unconscious Mind is like a parallel processor while the Conscious mind is like a sequential processor.

Our 'Aha' moments are therefore most likely inputs from the Unconscious mind and therefore more reliable.  Problem is of course that we are unable to separate these inputs from the usual clutter and natural impulses and therefore end up making mistakes.

Cheers.

Sriram

[wigginhall]

One of the interesting things about sport is that, within a very restricted zone, we enjoy watching people being instinctive.   OK, they also train like mad, and practice lots of stuff, yet one of the exhilarating moments in football is seeing that flash of genius that is unthought.   Ask him how he did it, and he will often say, dunno.   It just flashed out of his instinct and genius, ole.

But we deliberately set up these restricted zones to show this.   If you lived that like that, you might end up in disaster, and with 10 kids.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Rhi,

I think (hahahaha)...

Shouldn't that be "I think (ahahahah)..."?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Our 'Aha' moments are therefore most likely inputs from the Unconscious mind and therefore more reliable.

NON SEKWITEWER ALERT! NON SEKWITEWER ALERT!

Whether or not they're a product of our unconscious minds says nothing to whether they are "therefore more accurate".

And besides, how would you know whether or not they're accurate at all but for testing them - ie, the "methodical analysis" you disdain in your OP?

[SweetPea]

As someone who has anxiety, to varying degrees, I agree with that, NS - it's a classic example of where feelings lead you in completely the wrong direction.

Yes, in states such as anxiety, stress and depression and even moments of enhanced elation it's probably best not to trust the intuition. Better times may be when we are in a state of peace, with no rumbling emotions getting in the way.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sriram,

The way I see it, we have evolution stuck down our throats " don'tchaknow we are descended from apes/Monkeys " and yes I get that, but we are more, scientists claim that the Universe is something like 13 billion years old, that is where we came from, tell me about that, we were born in a twinkling of an eye, 13 billion years ago, us humans, all animal and plant life, 13 billion years ago, that is the aha moment, that is the gut instinct.

Wigs Talk about football, when Pele got the ball at his foot, he didn't see the opposition goal, he was a cunning minnow who had to weave and dodge to reach the coral which was his safety, tell me about the fish in Pele.

We, us, Humans have all that in us, written into what scientists call the DNA, fish, reptile, mammal, single cell, stardust, that is where we started from, tell me about that, we are all made in Gods image, 13 billion years ago, or so the scientists tell us.

Gonnagle.

[BeRational]

Dear Sriram,

The way I see it, we have evolution stuck down our throats " don'tchaknow we are descended from apes/Monkeys " and yes I get that, but we are more, scientists claim that the Universe is something like 13 billion years old, that is where we came from, tell me about that, we were born in a twinkling of an eye, 13 billion years ago, us humans, all animal and plant life, 13 billion years ago, that is the aha moment, that is the gut instinct.

Wigs Talk about football, when Pele got the ball at his foot, he didn't see the opposition goal, he was a cunning minnow who had to weave and dodge to reach the coral which was his safety, tell me about the fish in Pele.

We, us, Humans have all that in us, written into what scientists call the DNA, fish, reptile, mammal, single cell, stardust, that is where we started from, tell me about that, we are all made in Gods image, 13 billion years ago, or so the scientists tell us.

Gonnagle.

Of course you realise there was no life 13.7 billion years ago.

Humans I think are about 200,000 years old?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Berational,

Ding!! thank you for making my point, how do you know, you only know what we "call life".

Step outside of your box my friend, let God and the Universe engulf you.

Gonnagle.

[BeRational]

Dear Berational,

Ding!! thank you for making my point, how do you know, you only know what we "call life".

Step outside of your box my friend, let God and the Universe engulf you.

Gonnagle.

Know is quite strong it is not 100% certain but biologists that study this sort of thing say around 200,000 years as a maximum figure.
Just making stuff up does you no good.
Out of what box?
This is just an empty deepity used by people to make it appear they have some greater knowledge.

I very much doubt that you do.

[Sassy]

Hi everyone,

Here is a Science Daily article about trusting your sudden insight rather than the methodical analysis.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160307144013.htm

*****************

When a solution to a problem seems to have come to you out of thin air, it turns out you've more than likely been struck with the right idea, according to a new study.

A series of experiments conducted by a team of researchers determined that a person's sudden insights are often more accurate at solving problems than thinking them through analytically.

 "However, insight is unconscious and automatic -- it can't be rushed. When the process runs to completion in its own time and all the dots are connected unconsciously, the solution pops into awareness as an Aha! moment. This means that when a really creative, breakthrough idea is needed, it's often best to wait for the insight rather than settling for an idea that resulted from analytical thinking."

Analytical thinking is best used for problems in which known strategies have been laid out for solutions, such as arithmetic, Kounios said. But for new problems without a set path for finding a solution, insight is often best. The new study shows that more weight should be placed on these sudden thoughts.

"This means that in all kinds of personal and professional situations, when a person has a genuine, sudden insight, then the idea has to be taken seriously," Kounios said. "It may not always be correct, but it can have a higher probability of being right than an idea that is methodically worked out."

******************

Cheers.

Sriram

It's called the 'eureka moment' in the here and now.

Do you think Moses had one of those moments with the burning bush when God spoke to him?

What about the Egyptians do you think the waters parting before them was a eureka moment or rather when they closed back in on them... Like the water opening was a sign God really was leading them.....

Eureka moment.... May be God put all the answers there in the first place. That eureka moments are just Gods plan coming into being...

[bluehillside Retd.]

Gonners,

Love you like a brother and all that, but really...

The way I see it, we have evolution stuck down our throats...

No more than the germ theory of disease or the theory of gravity is "stuck down out throats" is it?

.,,"don'tchaknow we are descended from apes/Monkeys"

No, we are apes and we and monkeys are descended form a common ancestor.

...and yes I get that,

?

...but we are more

Than descendants of preceding species? How are we "more" than that?

-... scientists claim that the Universe is something like 13 billion years old, that is where we came from, tell me about that, we were born in a twinkling of an eye, 13 billion years ago, us humans, all animal and plant life, 13 billion years ago, that is the aha moment, that is the gut instinct.

No, the universe started around then but organic chemistry came much later, and primitive life (bacteria, eukaryotes etc) came much later still. Homo sapiens evolved at the equivalent to a minute to midnight compared with the age of the universe...

...which is a pretty odd piece of design for a god who knocked up a universe just for us.   

[Rhiannon]

It's so that we could have the fun of digging up fossils, Blue.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Rhi,

It's so that we could have the fun of digging up fossils, Blue.

Aha!

[Leonard James]

Dear Berational,

Ding!! thank you for making my point, how do you know, you only know what we "call life".

Step outside of your box my friend, let God and the Universe engulf you.

Gonnagle.

I think BR's box is somewhat larger than the one you are saking him to step into, Gonners! 

[Sriram]

It's called the 'eureka moment' in the here and now.

Do you think Moses had one of those moments with the burning bush when God spoke to him?

What about the Egyptians do you think the waters parting before them was a eureka moment or rather when they closed back in on them... Like the water opening was a sign God really was leading them.....

Eureka moment.... May be God put all the answers there in the first place. That eureka moments are just Gods plan coming into being...

Sassy,

Yes...Moses probably had quite a few 'Aha' moments when he was wandering in the desert. He probably realized that the real power and wisdom was inside him....and then managed to tap it.....and came up with the Ten Commandments.  The 'I AM'.

I don't know about the Christian God.....but we do have access to significant knowledge, strength and love deep within us.  This Consciousness is also what connects all of us and the entire ecological system together. According to Hindu beliefs this is the true God.