God's Love?

[Khatru]

Going by what I've heard Christians say, the attitude of their god towards his children when they misinterpret his mixed messages is "Fuck them - they disobeyed".

Picture a room full of children whose parents tell them to stay put in the room while they go out for a few hours leaving them unattended.  Upon their return, over 90% of those children have disobeyed their parents and have left the room to go and play on the dual carriageway.

When the parents get back, the kids are out there in the road, in terrible pain and suffering horrific injuries as the cars repeatedly hit them. 

You see, these kids are immortal and they cannot die.  They are destined to spend eternity in pain and agony as metal tears into flesh and bone.  Yet despite their screams, their supposedly loving parents say "Fuck them - it's their fault".

If you're a believer reading this and you find yourself in agreement that, it is, indeed, the kids fault, well...you're a different person to me.

[floo]

If the creation story is true, it would appear that god deliberately created humans and their nature so it could enjoy watching their suffering for as long as it pleased it to do so!

[Brownie]

I've never come across Christians who think or talk like that Khatru.  On the contrary, they usually make allowances for people and try to see the good in everyone, regardless of what they do.

It might be a good idea to widen your circle of acquaintance somewhat.

[floo]

I've never come across Christians who think or talk like that Khatru.  On the contrary, they usually make allowances for people and try to see the good in everyone, regardless of what they do.

It might be a good idea to widen your circle of acquaintance somewhat.

I have met some Christians like the ones you describe, which include my own three girls.  Sadly I have met all too many of the other sort who just love condemning those who don't see it their way to hell. There are a few of them on R&E!

[ippy]

Oh don't make such a fuss it's only a nativity play, the children enjoy the beginings of their indoctrination into thinking they will be recieving love from this mysterious god figure.

That's where it often starts

ippy

[Khatru]

I've never come across Christians who think or talk like that Khatru.  On the contrary, they usually make allowances for people and try to see the good in everyone, regardless of what they do.

Here's one who thinks/talks just like that....

Like you get a choice...LOL... That's right you had a choice and unless you make the right one that is where people go...

[Brownie]

I have met some Christians like the ones you describe, which include my own three girls.  Sadly I am met all too many of the other sort who just love condemning those who don't see it their way to hell. There are a few of them on R&E!

You haven't met the ones on R&E floo.  Forums are infamous for bringing the extremists out of the woodwork and for people saying whatever they feel like saying.

[Brownie]

Well you haven't, neither have I.  I haven't met you or Shaker or anyone else on here either, nor have you met me.

To reiterate, forums bring out the worst in people and all the extremists come out of the woodwork because they can say things on the internet that they would not say in real life.

If you wander into most of the churches in your vicinity you will not come across the same attitudes that you encounter on forums.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Khatru,
 
Your purpose for being on R&E is to attack the Christian faith and God. That is what your life is about, that is what your atheism has given you,  so I take your OP with that in mind. Your post singling out Sass is pathetic, considering your mission here.

[floo]

Well you haven't, neither have I.  I haven't met you or Shaker or anyone else on here either, nor have you met me.

To reiterate, forums bring out the worst in people and all the extremists come out of the woodwork because they can say things on the internet that they would not say in real life.

If you wander into most of the churches in your vicinity you will not come across the same attitudes that you encounter on forums.

I have encountered those attitudes all too frequently in real life unfortunately!

[Khatru]

Khatru,
 
Your purpose for being on R&E is to attack the Christian faith and God. That is what your life is about, that is what your atheism has given you,  so I take your OP with that in mind. Your post singling out Sass is pathetic, considering your mission here.

Spoken like someone who cannot refute my post.

You need to choose a better god to worship.  Have you thought of Satan?

[floo]

Spoken like someone who cannot refute my post.

You need to choose a better god to worship.  Have you thought of Satan?

  Satan cannot be any worse!

[Khatru]

Satan cannot be any worse!

He kills a lot less people than the Bible god does!

[Brownie]

I have encountered those attitudes all too frequently in real life unfortunately!

Recently?
I too have occasionally encountered such attitudes but did not stick around!  In order to encounter them now I would have to seek out an obscure church or become closer acquainted with people who give out leaflets, and sometimes speak, in shopping centres.  I choose not to, did my investigations a long time ago and know that flavour of Christianity is not for me.  I'll go so far as to say it isn't right but that is my opinion, I believe in free speech and freedom of religious expression so wouldn't gag anyone.  However no-one has the right to instill fear into children and youngsters.  Nowadays, the law protects the vulnerable in that regard - as far as it can.

It is unlikely you will come across fundamentalist evangelical preaching very often in real life, floo.  If you do you have the choice to reject it.  It is quite tempting to get involved and ask questions though, there is a certain fascination!  I used to be like that but cannot imagine being so tempted now. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Oh don't make such a fuss it's only a nativity play, the children enjoy the beginings of their indoctrination into thinking they will be recieving love from this mysterious god figure.

That's where it often starts

ippy

Oh No, more manger danger cobblers.

[ippy]

Oh No, more manger danger cobblers.

Probably where your indoctrination into religion started, like loads of children before you.

Of course it's harmless, it's only a nativity play, I must be imagining things. 

ippy

[Bubbles]

Probably where your indoctrination into religion started, like loads of children before you.

Of course it's harmless, it's only a nativity play, I must be imagining things. 

ippy

Yes, I think you are.

Children often enjoy the dressing up and the whole Christmas thing, it teaches them about what Christmas and the Christmas story is about.

A bit like them having fun at Easter by creating Easter cards and eggs and learning what is behind Easter for a lot of people.

It doesn't ' make' them anything.

It just gives them a break from the normal mundane things.

It could also be fun for them to explore the other side of things ( Yule logs, Christmas trees, Santa, Easter eggs, fluffy chicks, Easter bunnies.

Why not?

[Shaker]

Never had nativity plays at my primary school thank goodness - no tea towels for me.

[Bubbles]

Never had nativity plays at my primary school thank goodness - no tea towels for me.

That's a shame.

My two had nativity plays and their school was secular.  They enjoyed it, it didn't make them Christian.

I think to much fuss is made about it, the children just enjoy the dressing up and tinsel.

i used to get lumbered with the majority being something like a tree ( although what a forest is doing in a stable, I have no idea,) it did give everyone an opportunity to join in.

I see no harm at all in sharing with children what some of our festivals mean, and what's behind them.

It's just a part of our history.

[Hope]

Going by what I've heard Christians say, the attitude of their god towards his children when they misinterpret his mixed messages is "Fuck them - they disobeyed".

For one thing, what mixed messages would those be, Khat?  For a second, the Gospel story would seem to be more to do with 'OK, they stuffed up, so I'll give them a way to rebuild the relationship that they have broken' - somewhat the opposite of what you seem to want the message to be.

If you're a believer reading this and you find yourself in agreement that, it is, indeed, the kids fault, well...you're a different person to me.

I suspect that not only do most believers not even accept your imitial premis, but then also acknowledge God's wish for damage caused by disobedience to be repairable.  Thankfully, most of us aren't like you - if I was, I think I might have done away with myself by now.

[Spud]

Going by what I've heard Christians say, the attitude of their god towards his children when they misinterpret his mixed messages is "Fuck them - they disobeyed".

Picture a room full of children whose parents tell them to stay put in the room while they go out for a few hours leaving them unattended.  Upon their return, over 90% of those children have disobeyed their parents and have left the room to go and play on the dual carriageway.

When the parents get back, the kids are out there in the road, in terrible pain and suffering horrific injuries as the cars repeatedly hit them. 

You see, these kids are immortal and they cannot die.  They are destined to spend eternity in pain and agony as metal tears into flesh and bone.  Yet despite their screams, their supposedly loving parents say "Fuck them - it's their fault".

If you're a believer reading this and you find yourself in agreement that, it is, indeed, the kids fault, well...you're a different person to me.

God steps in and saves people from the consequences of their disobedience, which he takes on Himself.

[ippy]

Yes, I think you are.

Children often enjoy the dressing up and the whole Christmas thing, it teaches them about what Christmas and the Christmas story is about.

A bit like them having fun at Easter by creating Easter cards and eggs and learning what is behind Easter for a lot of people.

It doesn't ' make' them anything.

It just gives them a break from the normal mundane things.

It could also be fun for them to explore the other side of things ( Yule logs, Christmas trees, Santa, Easter eggs, fluffy chicks, Easter bunnies.

Why not?

Of course you're right Rose no really sophisticated religious organisation would even consider such a thing as gently drawing in new candidates in any way they can, or develop various ways doing so by trial and error probably over the last couple of thousand years, I must be one of those conspiracy theorists, after all nativity plays are only a bit of fun for the children of the next generation.   

ippy

[Hope]

If the creation story is true, it would appear that god deliberately created humans and their nature so it could enjoy watching their suffering for as long as it pleased it to do so!

I think the important word in Floo's post is the very first word.  If, contrary to her supposition, the Creation story is a theological treatment of the purpose of the human species, then the nature of that god changes dramatically.  I realise that Floo's opinion is coloured by the way she was brought up, and therefore differs - possibly in the extreme - from my opinion and that of many other Christians on the matter - so I think that we need to be careful that we don't assume an extreme understanding to be the mainstream understanding.

[Hope]

Spoken like someone who cannot refute my post.

Khat, it is hard to refute a post when it has so little content.  All it is is aimless and uneducated ramblings.  I had thought of using the adjective 'mendacious', but that would have implied a sense of purpose, which seems to be sadly lacking in many of your posts.

You need to choose a better god to worship.  Have you thought of Satan?

You are welkcome t choose Satan, but having seen the effects he has on people, I'd steer well clear of him.

[floo]

I think the important word in Floo's post is the very first word.  If, contrary to her supposition, the Creation story is a theological treatment of the purpose of the human species, then the nature of that god changes dramatically.  I realise that Floo's opinion is coloured by the way she was brought up, and therefore differs - possibly in the extreme - from my opinion and that of many other Christians on the matter - so I think that we need to be careful that we don't assume an extreme understanding to be the mainstream understanding.

Oh for crying out loud Hope, my opinion is NOTHING to do with my upbringing, but the reading of the Bible, which I continue to do! It was when I actually read that book from cover to cover, and not the selected verses from my childhood that I realised much of it was a fairy story with no credibility.