Best evidence for healing through prayer

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

That reminds me of so-called 'self-talk' which some psychotherapists recommend, that is, having a dialogue with yourself, as you mention.   It does seem to work with some people, as does keeping a journal also.  It seems to enable us to connect with parts of ourselves which normally lie unconscious.    I don't mean 'lie' in the sense of deceit!   Some Jungians have developed it into quite a complicated set of techniques, and they do it with dreams as well, so-called 'active imagination'.   But you can do this with anything which strikes you in life, whether a dream or not.

I has definitely worked for me. I was in a very bad place with Depression last year and it was instrumental in bringing me back to normal. It is very interesting as it does feel as though you are talking to yourself but a different self if that makes any sense.

It's a technique I use a lot now for all sorts of things. I was interested to hear if this is a similar type of experience that some religious people have when praying. Are they really talking with God or their inner selves?

[Bubbles]

Something I do when am anxious is to break things down into smaller steps, I find it makes it easier.

I think prayer can work the same way, because you are passing the future over to God to look after, and just manage the present moment yourself..

Even something as simple as a car journey,  with a difficultly of parking at the end, especially if it is in unfamiliar territory.

We can only cope with the present, really.

🌹

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Yes I don't believe science can assess divine claims, and as the atheist Chomsky said it isn't very Good in the context of psychology and sociology either.

Other than that Gordon methodology is not ontology.

Then I think you believe incorrectly.

I don't see any reason why science can't assess the claims of divine occurrences.  If someone claims to be able to turn water into wine at the drop of a hat, why wouldn't the scientific method be appropriate?

Again I accept that it can't go beyond that and assign a supernatural origin but it can assess the claims.

[Shaker]

I has definitely worked for me. I was in a very bad place with Depression last year and it was instrumental in bringing me back to normal. It is very interesting as it does feel as though you are talking to yourself but a different self if that makes any sense.

It's a technique I use a lot now for all sorts of things. I was interested to hear if this is a similar type of experience that some religious people have when praying. Are they really talking with God or their inner selves?

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Stephen, but am delighted to hear of your recovery.

I don't know if you've read (or even heard of) a book called Darkness Visible by the late William Styron. It's an account of his own bout with severe depression - it's a slender little book, beautifully written, short enough to be read in one sitting. I heartily recommend it to anyone. He notes that many people in the throes of the severest form of depression have observed a strange but interesting phenomenon, something like a second self observing the depressed self. He puts it better than I can - you'd need to read the book itself to get the gist of it.

http://goo.gl/ueY6wI

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Something I do when am anxious is to break things down into smaller steps, I find it makes it easier.

I think prayer can work the same way, because you are passing the future over to God to look after, and manage the present.

🌹

Interesting how people work in different ways isn't it. Handing the future over the some other agency wouldn't work for me as it had to be me I was addressing. I wish I could find a better way to express the other me in this that I address but it is very difficult. hence the reason I was wondering if anyone else had a similar experience.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But it doesn't always heal its own gang. When my husband, an atheist, was desperately ill, well meaning folk offered up prayers for him. At the same time a devout Christian friend of ours was very ill too, he died, my husband survived. Our friend's family was completely screwed up as his children were still fairly young!

Again hardly a scientific treatment........and of course one that can easily be countered by raising the screwing up of families by human interaction.

The life of Jesus speaks that Christians are not spared suffering.

Again people are alighting at a caricature view of Christianity.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Then I think you believe incorrectly.

I don't see any reason why science can't assess the claims of divine occurrences.  If someone claims to be able to turn water into wine at the drop of a hat, why wouldn't the scientific method be appropriate?

Again I accept that it can't go beyond that and assign a supernatural origin but it can assess the claims.

although science can determine whether there is a healing or not in the physical sense. It has nothing to say on God.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Stephen, but am delighted to hear of your recovery.

I don't know if you've read (or even heard of) a book called Darkness Visible by the late William Styron. It's an account of his own bout with severe depression - it's a slender little book, beautifully written, short enough to be read in one sitting. I heartily recommend it to anyone. He notes that many people in the throes of the severest form of depression have observed a strange but interesting phenomenon, something like a second self observing the depressed self. He puts it better than I can - you'd need to read the book itself to get the gist of it.

http://goo.gl/ueY6wI

Thank you. I have just ordered it.

I am recovered now thanks to the excellent treatment I received.


I also now have this new technique of talking to my inner self that is a real bonus in everyday life.

I would also encourage anyone who feels that they are in a bad place to seek help. It is out there and you can get better,

[Shaker]

although science can determine whether there is a healing or not in the physical sense. It has nothing to say on God.

It's the theists who have plenty to say on God, attributing healings to it while curiously at the same time glossing over the non-healings.

[Bubbles]

Interesting how people work in different ways isn't it. Handing the future over the some other agency wouldn't work for me as it had to be me I was addressing. I wish I could find a better way to express the other me in this that I address but it is very difficult. hence the reason I was wondering if anyone else had a similar experience.

Is that like the " you" living in the present,  talking to a "you" that almost doesn't?

Or a "you" that is the little voice that berates yourself for not " getting it together" ?

If I'm nervous I sometimes mentally tell myself off, it's a sort of sensible me, tells off the fearful and wimpy me......

 

[Rhiannon]

Thank you. I have just ordered it.

I am recovered now thanks to the excellent treatment I received.


I also now have this new technique of talking to my inner self that is a real bonus in everyday life.

I would also encourage anyone who feels that they are in a bad place to seek help. It is out there and you can get better,

Been through it too, Stephen. Glad you are feeling better.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's the theists who have plenty to say on God, attributing healings to it while curiously at the same time glossing over the non-healings.

No the problem here is the caricature view that anti theists hold.
You are the likes of person that tells the likes of me what I am believing.

StillI suppose it saves you the trouble of listening.

[Shaker]

No the problem here is the caricature view that anti theists hold.
You are the likes of person that tells the likes of me what I am believing.

StillI suppose it saves you the trouble of listening.

It's no caricature - as I said, you only have to look at the prayer thread.

[Gordon]

Yes I don't believe science can assess divine claims

So what method do you use to assess divine claims?

[Bubbles]

Thank you. I have just ordered it.

I am recovered now thanks to the excellent treatment I received.


I also now have this new technique of talking to my inner self that is a real bonus in everyday life.

I would also encourage anyone who feels that they are in a bad place to seek help. It is out there and you can get better,

I too am glad you are feeling better 

🌹

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So what method do you use to assess divine claims?

What method did you use to establish your ontological naturalism since you can't use methodological naturalism?

Touché aside, like science detection of the divine is instrumental. The instrument is you, the detection is the perturbations by God....and let's face it there are huge perturbations on this forum😉

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's no caricature - as I said, you only have to look at the prayer thread.

Yes that is but one thread specifically for a type of prayer on one forum.

To give further example of how unrepresentative this forum, most atheists on here are antitheist yet in reality anti theists are a tiny minority who are just loud and get the same kind of attention as people with 100% body tattoos, I e complete.

[Bubbles]

Yes that is but one thread specifically for a type of prayer on one forum.

To give further example of how unrepresentative this forum, most atheists on here are antitheist yet in reality anti theists are a tiny minority who are just loud and get the same kind of attention as people with 100% body tattoos, I e complete.

Same kind of attention as people with 100% body tattoos?

 

[Shaker]

Yes that is but one thread specifically for a type of prayer on one forum.

Cue special pleading!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Cue special pleading!

How?

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Is that like the " you" living in the present,  talking to a "you" that almost doesn't?

Or a "you" that is the little voice that berates yourself for not " getting it together" ?

If I'm nervous I sometimes mentally tell myself off, it's a sort of sensible me, tells off the fearful and wimpy me......

 

Much more like the first one. It is clearly me in the present talking to the real me. The fundamental me. All very odd, but it does seem to work very well.

I can see how it could easily be given some spiritual or religious interpretation. I don't ascribe it to a God or some external agent but I think I have developed or nurtured a spiritual side to me that wasn't there before.

[Gordon]

What method did you use to establish your ontological naturalism since you can't use methodological naturalism?

Touché aside, like science detection of the divine is instrumental. The instrument is you, the detection is the perturbations by God....and let's face it there are huge perturbations on this forum😉

Evasion not just noted but expected - in other words you don't have a clue.

Touché indeed: who are you kidding!

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

although science can determine whether there is a healing or not in the physical sense. It has nothing to say on God.

We are agreed then.

So then if we used science to determine that there was a strong correlation between prayer and healings (let's say every time Pete the Preacher prays for someone an amputee grows back a limb), then what methodology would we use to determine that something divine was at play?

[Shaker]

How?

Your implication that petitionary prayer exists only on this forum.

[ippy]

Is that like the " you" living in the present,  talking to a "you" that almost doesn't?

Or a "you" that is the little voice that berates yourself for not " getting it together" ?

If I'm nervous I sometimes mentally tell myself off, it's a sort of sensible me, tells off the fearful and wimpy me......

 

Id, ego &  super ego, all seem to live, combine quite well inside our brains, well at least for most people.

Look it up on wikki and then tell me where else I should or could have looked Rose.

There are loads of things around that I don't know about, like my inability to write much without including spelling mistakes, I'm not frightened of being told this annoying fact about my spelling, there's not many of us that can do or know everything, even I don't know everything and I also know how surprising this must be to you.

Regards ippy