Author Topic: Biblical Translation  (Read 34506 times)

Ricky Spanish

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #175 on: March 23, 2016, 02:04:38 PM »
I used to try educated "Sass" many years back about her misunderstanding of the bible, both OT and NT, in the Old NGL days..

Fallen on ignorant ears obviously!!

LOL
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Leonard James

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #176 on: March 23, 2016, 03:20:23 PM »
I used to try educated "Sass" many years back about her misunderstanding of the bible, both OT and NT, in the Old NGL days..

Fallen on ignorant ears obviously!!

LOL

Sass is stone deaf to anything that disagrees with her version of Christianity.

Owlswing

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #177 on: March 23, 2016, 03:33:48 PM »
Sass is stone deaf to anything that disagrees with her version of Christianity.

Deaf and blind if this forum is anything to go by!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

floo

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #178 on: March 23, 2016, 04:35:54 PM »
Sass is stone deaf to anything that disagrees with her version of Christianity.

She has demonstrated that over and over again throughout the years.

Brownie

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #179 on: March 23, 2016, 05:55:02 PM »
Pots and kettles, takes one to know one, floo.  Please play another tune.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Sassy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #180 on: March 24, 2016, 06:17:26 AM »
Correct - but you claimed that the KJV is:
I informed you that No Jewish Scholars were involved in writing the KJV.

You are wrong:-




Quote
King James  authorised a commission of 47 men, all were outstanding scholars who were really great literary men who knew Greek, Latin and Hebrew fluently, and they decided that a good new translation was needed in English. So they got together this whole group of Biblical scholars.--Hebrew scholars, Greek scholars, Latin scholars, men who really knew what they were doing--and they worked on this new English translation of the Bible for a good many years.

As you can see Hebrew Scholars did translate the Hebrew section of the bible. It took over 6 years to write and the scholars went over and over it, all translated from the original tongues. The scholars even compared it to the Latin Vulgate. Tyndale's and Wycliffe's and the Vulgate and Huss' and all the translations they compared.


Quote
Your response was:
In what way is John Wycliffe a Jewish scholar?

No, we can't. In fact, we can show it can from the exact opposite, it was written by people who didn't even know Koine Greek existed. You know the original tongue of the NT.

I guess you could not see beyond Wycliffe and the others to the truth of how the KJV was done.

Quote
Which was corrupted by the EDITORS of the KJV to suit their purposes and again Tyndale never translated the actual Hebrew, but took his influences from the Greek translations of the Hebrew Testaments about their G-d and took choice passages from the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the Greek New Testament available in Europe, to suit his teachings.
Taking his cues from Tyndale, with all his flaws and retranslations...

As the men were fluent in the language who did the authorised version, I do not see what the above has to do with it.
They took the originals and compared it to the others however they compared all in their version.

Quote
Because every translation was created by someone with an agenda - I struggle to see how you cannot understand that!!

I'm going to stop engaging with you about the bible. Your knowledge of how it was created is shockingly absent!!

Well, it is you who sadly lack the truth. All the buff about corrupt versions etc. The Jewish scholars in all cases would have had ONE agenda NOT to change the word of God. Because the Jews learned the scriptures off by heart and still do today.

Any Hebrew Scholar in any time would be able to translate the Hebrew bible. Because we see that even the disciples learned it by heart. It is proved when the actions of Christ bring the words to mind.

If you choose to stop conversing that is your choice. But at least do it for a valid reason. In this case you were wrong.
You choose like everyone else what you want to believe, but you never check it out or reason it through.

The KJV is even today, believed by HEBREW JEWISH SCHOLARS to be the NEAREST TO THEIR OWN OT WRITINGS.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #181 on: March 24, 2016, 06:19:21 AM »
Poor Sass, 'twaddle' must be her middle name! :(

Where Twaddle is your first name. Oh, should that be ignorant?
At least I know what I am talking about. You are just happy to bask in your own ignorance.
It is okay everyone else gets embarrassed for you, especially Shaker who I believe will watch what he
defends you on, in future.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #182 on: March 24, 2016, 06:21:42 AM »
I used to try educated "Sass" many years back about her misunderstanding of the bible, both OT and NT, in the Old NGL days..

Fallen on ignorant ears obviously!!

LOL

Says the person who doesn't even know the history of the KJV bible and just believes the ignorant rumours. In the old NGL days
you rarely took anything on board. It was you who learned from myself. Now you are off with the fairies looking for whatever suits your cause and choice of beliefs.
Never mind! You don't even check... that is obvious from your last post.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #183 on: March 24, 2016, 06:32:33 AM »
Deaf and blind if this forum is anything to go by!

Thank you for letting me know I get to you. It is a sure sign of your own failures when you many gang up on one person.
He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.
I suppose you believe mockary, childhood tactics bullying and making such remarks somehow excuses the ignorance you all display when answering biblical or Christian teachings.
But it doesn't you just stoop to a new level of adding it to your sarcastic replies and  defeat when faced with the truth from believers whom you can give no scholarly or educated reply to.

Good to know you prove God right about those who believe the message of Christ foolish because they really have no wisdom in these matters...


We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #184 on: March 24, 2016, 08:15:42 AM »
Where Twaddle is your first name. Oh, should that be ignorant?
At least I know what I am talking about. You are just happy to bask in your own ignorance.
It is okay everyone else gets embarrassed for you, especially Shaker who I believe will watch what he
defends you on, in future.

Pot and kettle Sass, your ignorance knows no bounds. You seem to be very ignorant of the crazy way you present yourself to others, but it was ever thus. ::)

Owlswing

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #185 on: March 24, 2016, 08:39:46 AM »

Pot and kettle Sass, your ignorance knows no bounds. You seem to be very ignorant of the crazy way you present yourself to others, but it was ever thus. ::)


O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

Robert Burns

If the power were given to us - I wonder exactly what Sassy would see, but I am not sure that I really want to find the answer, but I rather think it would be far different to what she would seem to think she woud see!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 08:42:47 AM by Owlswing »
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Sassy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #186 on: March 27, 2016, 11:20:21 AM »
Thank you for letting me know I get to you. It is a sure sign of your own failures when you many gang up on one person.
He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.
I suppose you believe mockary, childhood tactics bullying and making such remarks somehow excuses the ignorance you all display when answering biblical or Christian teachings.
But it doesn't you just stoop to a new level of adding it to your sarcastic replies and  defeat when faced with the truth from believers whom you can give no scholarly or educated reply to.

Good to know you prove God right about those who believe the message of Christ foolish because they really have no wisdom in these matters...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Leonard James

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #187 on: March 27, 2016, 11:25:00 AM »


We love you really, Sass.  :)

It's just that usually you post such arrant nonsense that you make it difficult to resist pointing out how wrong it is.  :)

Owlswing

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #188 on: March 27, 2016, 04:23:01 PM »

Quote from: Sassy on 24-03-2016, 06:32:33

    Thank you for letting me know I get to you. It is a sure sign of your own failures when you many gang up on one person.
   

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sassy,

You couldn't get to me if you were standing five feet in front of me.

I have listened, over the last sixty or so years to so many so-called experts (ex = something or someone that is or has been - xpert (pronounced "spurt") = a drip under pressure) spout gallons and gallons and reams and reams of total and utter twaddle and hoigs wash.

You are living proof that there are none so blind as those who will not see, your arrogance in your belief that you are the only one who knows the truth and your vilifyication of any who dare to disagree with you and your world view makes you, and you would realise this if you bathered to read what is posted about you and your views, about as popular as a pork chop at a Bar Mitzvah.

Ignorance, they say, is bliss. You must be totally blissed out!

If you are on FaceBook there is apicture circulating showing a depiction of Jesus holding up a sign that says"My Dad says that if I can get 1m likes I can come back to Earth again! Get "Like"ing Sassy! Much good may it do you. 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Sassy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #189 on: March 29, 2016, 11:43:52 AM »
Quote from: Sassy on 24-03-2016, 06:32:33

    Thank you for letting me know I get to you. It is a sure sign of your own failures when you many gang up on one person.
   

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sassy,

You couldn't get to me if you were standing five feet in front of me.

I have listened, over the last sixty or so years to so many so-called experts (ex = something or someone that is or has been - xpert (pronounced "spurt") = a drip under pressure) spout gallons and gallons and reams and reams of total and utter twaddle and hoigs wash.

You are living proof that there are none so blind as those who will not see, your arrogance in your belief that you are the only one who knows the truth and your vilifyication of any who dare to disagree with you and your world view makes you, and you would realise this if you bathered to read what is posted about you and your views, about as popular as a pork chop at a Bar Mitzvah.

Ignorance, they say, is bliss. You must be totally blissed out!

If you are on FaceBook there is apicture circulating showing a depiction of Jesus holding up a sign that says"My Dad says that if I can get 1m likes I can come back to Earth again! Get "Like"ing Sassy! Much good may it do you.

Thanks for confirming I do get to you.
Seems you are more interested in me, than I will ever be in you. But if, I was interested in you, I would get the things I say about you right. It is truth which I am interested in, and the truth about you, I always get right.
I bet you wish you could be as sure about your beliefs, as I am about mine. I see it gets to you that someone can be so sure about God and his word. I doubt however, you could cope with what my family and I, have been through and come out the other side of it.

Your attempts to insult get worse as your posts increase in number by way of reply to me. If that is the best you have I suggest you give up now and quietly back down. You are good at making yourself look rather silly and uneducated when it comes to Christians and being able to answer them. Knock yourself out, and try and post something original and even true will do.
To be honest the only people you will knock out on the forum with posts like this, is the readers who will fall asleep from boredom.

1/10 for effort.
Note to Owlswing:  Must try harder...trying everyone's patience does not count... LOL.. :-*
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

ippy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #190 on: March 29, 2016, 03:01:18 PM »
Thanks for confirming I do get to you.
Seems you are more interested in me, than I will ever be in you. But if, I was interested in you, I would get the things I say about you right. It is truth which I am interested in, and the truth about you, I always get right.
I bet you wish you could be as sure about your beliefs, as I am about mine. I see it gets to you that someone can be so sure about God and his word. I doubt however, you could cope with what my family and I, have been through and come out the other side of it.

Your attempts to insult get worse as your posts increase in number by way of reply to me. If that is the best you have I suggest you give up now and quietly back down. You are good at making yourself look rather silly and uneducated when it comes to Christians and being able to answer them. Knock yourself out, and try and post something original and even true will do.
To be honest the only people you will knock out on the forum with posts like this, is the readers who will fall asleep from boredom.

1/10 for effort.
Note to Owlswing:  Must try harder...trying everyone's patience does not count... LOL.. :-*

You do add colour to the forum Sass, I like your eccentricities, where you go wrong most times is your reliance on baseless assertions, you're nowhere near the nut job as good old Sparkie or poor old ~TW~ are, but you do need to be able to find some way of substantiating your excessive amount of unsupported assertions.

Contrary to what you may think Sass I wish you well, ippy 

Khatru

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #191 on: April 04, 2016, 10:48:30 AM »
jeremy, I am only saying what I think, not trying to come up with an argument.  I do not see that particular issue as showing God to be a liar, not because I am not prepared to admit God is a liar.  You believe the Bible portrays God as a liar - that's your prerogative and I won't dispute it with you because I accept you do not believe in God.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to admit that the god of the Bible lied.  It's the same reason that so many believers won't admit that their god was wrong in not condemning slavery.

Because if they do then they are also admitting that they have a higher standard of morality than their god; which, of course, would ruin everything.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 11:14:28 AM by Khatru »
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Ricky Spanish

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #192 on: April 10, 2016, 08:02:14 PM »
You are wrong:-




As you can see Hebrew Scholars did translate the Hebrew section of the bible. It took over 6 years to write and the scholars went over and over it, all translated from the original tongues. The scholars even compared it to the Latin Vulgate. Tyndale's and Wycliffe's and the Vulgate and Huss' and all the translations they compared.


I guess you could not see beyond Wycliffe and the others to the truth of how the KJV was done.

As the men were fluent in the language who did the authorised version, I do not see what the above has to do with it.
They took the originals and compared it to the others however they compared all in their version.

Well, it is you who sadly lack the truth. All the buff about corrupt versions etc. The Jewish scholars in all cases would have had ONE agenda NOT to change the word of God. Because the Jews learned the scriptures off by heart and still do today.

Any Hebrew Scholar in any time would be able to translate the Hebrew bible. Because we see that even the disciples learned it by heart. It is proved when the actions of Christ bring the words to mind.

If you choose to stop conversing that is your choice. But at least do it for a valid reason. In this case you were wrong.
You choose like everyone else what you want to believe, but you never check it out or reason it through.

The KJV is even today, believed by HEBREW JEWISH SCHOLARS to be the NEAREST TO THEIR OWN OT WRITINGS.

No, I'm not "wrong".

You can keep wittering on about HEBREW as much as you like, that's not the issue.

The issue is the Original Koine Greek texts, if they even knew they existed, were unreadable to these "translators".

Aye, they might have had classical Greek as a part of their translation armoury, but the NT wasn't constructed in posh "Classical Greek" but in the common tongue of the underclass. Which was foreign to these "translators".

Quote
The translators of the KJV 1611 were untrained in Koine Greek.

Koine (“common”) Greek is the original language of the New Testament. Koine Greek had been a dead language for over a thousand years when the KJV was published for the first time in 1611. The translators of the KJV didn’t even know what Koine Greek was. Some people believed that the Greek language of the NT was a unique, Spirit-inspired dialect.[5] It was not until the late 1800s and during the 1900s, when tens of thousands of papyri documents were discovered – many written in Koine, that we could begin to understand the language more fully.[6] Unlike the translators of the KJV, modern translators of the New Testament are scholars of Koine Greek.

The KJV translation of the NT is based on relatively recent Greek manuscripts.

As well as relying on previous English translations, the 1611 edition of the KJV relied on a critically edited Greek text that was “for the most part based on about half a dozen very late manuscripts (none earlier than the 12th century AD).”[7] These late manuscripts include editions of the Greek New Testament by Erasmus[8], as well as Robert Estienne’s (a.k.a. ‘Stephanus’) edition (1550) and Theodore Beza’s edition (1598). Unfortunately, one of the manuscripts Estienne and Beza used for their Greek editions contained a few “corrections” that downplayed the importance of women in the church.[9]"



http://newlife.id.au/church-history/7-things-about-the-king-james-bible/

http://www.ibri.org/Tracts/trkjvtct.htm

The KVJ was constructed of a mistranslation, of a mistranslation, of a mistranslation, ad infinitum!!

« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 10:36:26 PM by Thrud the Barbarian »
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Sassy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #193 on: April 11, 2016, 10:50:43 AM »
No, I'm not "wrong".

You can keep wittering on about HEBREW as much as you like, that's not the issue.

Let us study this together.  The Holy Spirit always spoke through the Prophet's and we know Christ himself said:-
"My words are SPIRIT and they are Life." Given the fact that all were given the word by the Spirit and that the very same Spirit teaches all who are born of Spirit and truth then for the believer it is not an issue of language.

Acts 2.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.


So where you have the problem of knowing the truth and put it down to worldly scholarly matters like language.
The believer in Spirit and Truth does not have that problem. The OT and the NT show clearly God giving them the words to speak and opening their minds to scripture. The truth you fail to grasp like so many is that the believer has God to teach them through the Holy Spirit. No problems with definitions or languages.



Quote
The issue is the Original Koine Greek texts, if they even knew they existed, were unreadable to these "translators".

Aye, they might have had classical Greek as a part of their translation armoury, but the NT wasn't constructed in posh "Classical Greek" but in the common tongue of the underclass. Which was foreign to these "translators".

The KVJ was constructed of a mistranslation, of a mistranslation, of a mistranslation, ad infinitum!!

But as explained the Christian disciples did not require either. The word of God in OT learned by heart hence the disciples referred to it when they saw the things Jesus did. The NT did not exist and as Christ promised the Holy Spirit taught them.
I DO understand your worldly problem as a non believer but as a believer there is no problem because it is not longer in the letter but the sword of the Spirit.

The Hebrew being learned by heart even for Jews would always be the closest for OT and the NT believers had the same as the OT Prophets to teach them and bring the word of God.

When God wants a person to know something language has never been a barrier as Acts 2 reveals.
So whilst I understand the predicament for you. It will never be a problem for those in the Spirit as example shows.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 10:55:13 AM by Sassy »
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #194 on: April 11, 2016, 11:13:44 AM »
I reckon Sass and Thrud love each other really, and enjoy their spats! ;D

ippy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #195 on: April 12, 2016, 01:20:13 AM »
As far as I'm aware, it is human socity that controls the development of language.  It is, partly, why legislation sometimes has to be updated in order to take such developments into account.  I suppose that if society decided to stop all language development, we could get away with using older translations.  At the same time, the transferring of concets across languages doesn't always work smoothly.  For instance, in the Nepalese Bible, there is no mention of the Lamb of God.  Why?  There are no sheep in Nepal.  Comparably, and away from the Bible, there are half a dozen words for snow in the global forms of English; there are probably a dozen (not the famed 300/100/50) in Inuit languages.

I suppose Klingons would have some difficulty there too, the sheep.

ippy

Khatru

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #196 on: April 12, 2016, 01:27:48 PM »
So where you have the problem of knowing the truth and put it down to worldly scholarly matters like language.
The believer in Spirit and Truth does not have that problem.

Ah yes, that fits the third and ninth in my list of reasons that Christians regularly trot out to explain why they get it but I don't.

I don't understand because I need to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
I don't understand because I need to view it from a child's perspective
I don't understand because I'm not a "true Christian"
I don't understand because I'm not a biblical scholar
I don't understand because I took the scripture out of context.
I don't understand because it means something other than what it actually says
I don't understand because it's an allegory
I don't understand because my mind is far too feeble to comprehend your god's truth
I don't understand because I've not been filled with the holy spirit
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 01:29:55 PM by Khatru »
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Dorothy Parker

ippy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #197 on: April 12, 2016, 02:18:36 PM »
Ah yes, that fits the third and ninth in my list of reasons that Christians regularly trot out to explain why they get it but I don't.

I don't understand because I need to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
I don't understand because I need to view it from a child's perspective
I don't understand because I'm not a "true Christian"
I don't understand because I'm not a biblical scholar
I don't understand because I took the scripture out of context.
I don't understand because it means something other than what it actually says
I don't understand because it's an allegory
I don't understand because my mind is far too feeble to comprehend your god's truth
I don't understand because I've not been filled with the holy spirit

Like it, a good post.

ippy

Owlswing

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #198 on: April 12, 2016, 05:42:45 PM »
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Sassy

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Re: Biblical Translation
« Reply #199 on: April 13, 2016, 01:01:51 PM »
Fools seldom differ.... :D
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."