Is horse racing cruel?

[john]

I see that on Monday this week 3 horses participating in races died at Cheltenham. I wonder how many more will die there this week?

If 3 dogs a day died at Crufts would that be acceptable?

Is it morally right to put horses through this just so plebs can have fun gambling now electronic gambling machines have been invented?

I think horse racing is an unacceptable and unnecessary cruelty.

 

[Shaker]

So do I.

[jeremyp]

I see that on Monday this week 3 horses participating in races died at Cheltenham. I wonder how many more will die there this week?

If 3 dogs a day died at Crufts would that be acceptable?

I saw a Facebook post the other day that claimed the best in breed German Shepherd was practically incapable of walking (a "desirable" trait of pure bred German shepherds is ridiculously short back legs). Whether that particular story is true or not, Crufts certainly does have ethical problems.

[Bubbles]

No, I don't think it is.

Accidents happen.

[Shaker]

No, I don't think it is.

Accidents happen.

Is it an accident if you needlessly put someone/thing deliberately in harm's way, even if only potentially? No, it isn't. 

[Shaker]

I saw a Facebook post the other day that claimed the best in breed German Shepherd was practically incapable of walking (a "desirable" trait of pure bred German shepherds is ridiculously short back legs). Whether that particular story is true or not, Crufts certainly does have ethical problems.

It is true.

Also that English bulldogs have been bred with such large heads that almost all (80% +) can now only be born by  Caesarean section. And then there's life-long breathing problems associated with their flat faces.

[Gordon]

I have to confess that I'm pro-horse-racing, and that I'm probably biased since I've been involved with horses for most of my life until my mid 50's, having owned several for riding purposes as did other members of my family, so I've ridden quite a few and in my much younger days I've even ridden-out (e.g. exercised) racehorses.

Horses aren't pets though and owing one is a considerable financial and time commitment, and in my experience they are invariably well looked after. These days though, since they aren't essential for transport as they once were, and where horses are kept it is to be ridden and/or jumped, which for most of them comes naturally.

Those who say that horses 'enjoy it' are kidding themselves though: in my experience they just aren't that bright, but the reality is that horses will run and jump even if not encouraged to do so by people and over my equine years I've seen a number injure themselves and other horses (they can and do kick each other) whilst grazing in fields.   

[SusanDoris]

I have to confess that I'm pro-horse-racing, and that I'm probably biased since I've been involved with horses for most of my life until my mid 50's, having owned several for riding purposes as did other members of my family, so I've ridden quite a few and in my much younger days I've even ridden-out (e.g. exercised) racehorses.

Horses aren't pets though and owing one is a considerable financial and time commitment, and in my experience they are invariably well looked after. These days though, since they aren't essential for transport as they once were, and where horses are kept it is to be ridden and/or jumped, which for most of them comes naturally.

Those who say that horses 'enjoy it' are kidding themselves though: in my experience they just aren't that bright, but the reality is that horses will run and jump even if not encouraged to do so by people and over my equine years I've seen a number injure themselves and other horses (they can and do kick each other) whilst grazing in fields.

Good post.

[Bubbles]

Is it an accident if you needlessly put someone/thing deliberately in harm's way, even if only potentially? No, it isn't.

Horses love to run with other horses.

They don't deliberately put them in harms way.
As Gordon says they can injure themselves in their field.

[Shaker]

Horses love to run with other horses.

I suggest you read Gordon's #6.

They don't deliberately put them in harms way.

I suggest you read the OP. If 3 horses have died in races which they didn't actually have to run, that's being put in harm's way as I understand it. Horses don't die in races if they don't race.

[Bubbles]

I saw a Facebook post the other day that claimed the best in breed German Shepherd was practically incapable of walking (a "desirable" trait of pure bred German shepherds is ridiculously short back legs). Whether that particular story is true or not, Crufts certainly does have ethical problems.

I have a pure bred German Shepherd, and it hasn't got short back legs 

It's not a desirable trait.

One of the problem areas with both golden retrievers and German shepherds are their hips.

If you buy one, it's best to make sure you know the hip score of the parents.

One of the biggest problems isn't Crufts, but puppy farms.

I've known a few people buy their pets from puppy farms, mainly because they feel sorry for it, so they buy it. Then you get huge bills for medical bills.

The chances are, that won't happen if you find a responsible breeder.

We've always gone to a reputable breeder and seen both parents.

[Bubbles]

I suggest you read Gordon's #6.
I suggest you read the OP. If 3 horses have died in races which they didn't actually have to run, that's being put in harm's way as I understand it. Horses don't die in races if they don't race.

People die jogging.

No one has suggested it be banned.

You really don't like people interacting with animals, do you?

[Bubbles]

I have to confess that I'm pro-horse-racing, and that I'm probably biased since I've been involved with horses for most of my life until my mid 50's, having owned several for riding purposes as did other members of my family, so I've ridden quite a few and in my much younger days I've even ridden-out (e.g. exercised) racehorses.

Horses aren't pets though and owing one is a considerable financial and time commitment, and in my experience they are invariably well looked after. These days though, since they aren't essential for transport as they once were, and where horses are kept it is to be ridden and/or jumped, which for most of them comes naturally.

Those who say that horses 'enjoy it' are kidding themselves though: in my experience they just aren't that bright, but the reality is that horses will run and jump even if not encouraged to do so by people and over my equine years I've seen a number injure themselves and other horses (they can and do kick each other) whilst grazing in fields.

Race horses were always far too highly strung for most people like me to manage.

I've known people who have bred them, and they are a bit different to your average pony 

[Shaker]

People die jogging.

No one has suggested it be banned.

Probably because jogging is a matter of choice - humans can choose to jog if they want to, cognisant in advance of the potential risks. Rugby, skydiving, boxing, Formula 1 racing likewise.

People die on forced marches or are worked to death and they are banned because of the element of compulsion.

You really don't like people interacting with animals, do you?

Interacting is fine.

Treating non-human animals as objects and commodities for human use and abuse isn't.

[floo]

I have a pure bred German Shepherd, and it hasn't got short back legs 

It's not a desirable trait.

One of the problem areas with both golden retrievers and German shepherds are their hips.

If you buy one, it's best to make sure you know the hip score of the parents.

One of the biggest problems isn't Crufts, but puppy farms.

I've known a few people buy their pets from puppy farms, mainly because they feel sorry for it, so they buy it. Then you get huge bills for medical bills.

The chances are, that won't happen if you find a responsible breeder.

We've always gone to a reputable breeder and seen both parents.

Our German shepherds didn't have short legs!

However, some dogs have been bred to look ridiculous, imo, and it can't be good for them at all. I bet those ghastly yappy very small dogs wouldn't have occurred naturally as they wouldn't survive in the wild.

[Bubbles]

Probably because jogging is a matter of choice - humans can choose to jog if they want to, cognisant of the potential risks. Rugby, skydiving, boxing, Formula 1 racing likewise.
Interacting is fine.

Treating non-human animals as obects and commodities for human use and abuse isn't.

That's what I mean.

All pets are kept in unnatural conditions, for human use.

Even your goldfish in a bowl.

[wigginhall]

It's something I've thought about on and off for years.   I'm pretty ignorant about it, never having been close up to horse racing, but it looks cruel to me.  Whether it should be banned is a separate question.   I don't know.

[Shaker]

That's what I mean.

All pets are kept in unnatural conditions, for human use.

Even your goldfish in a bowl.

I don't have a goldfish in a bowl.

Cats and dogs have been domesticated for so long that they've co-evolved with humans and happily share human habitation and lifestyle - we get their companionship and affection, they (if lucky) receive the same and all the perks that go with it.

[SusanDoris]

Since horse riding and racing are world-wide pursuits and could never be prevented, do you have what might be considered a workable compromise, Shaker?

[john]

My dog is a multi relatives Long Haired Jack Russell type dog. With a bit of Spaniel in him. We saved his life by rescuing him from a dogs home where he would otherwise have been put down. He shows every sign of being grateful and loving us for it. I would not dream of entering him in a competition which put his life in danger, he's far too valuable.

I think it is a measurable medical fact that mongrel types are much healthier and long lived than inbred special breeds. My previous Jack Russell mongrel made it to 20 years old.

[Shaker]

Since horse riding and racing are world-wide pursuits and could never be prevented, do you have what might be considered a workable compromise, Shaker?

Nothing springs to mind. Too many people would lose too much money, and that's never allowed to stand in the way of anything.

[floo]

I think animals should have their uses either as food, clothing (leather/wool) or in the case of my gerbil as an organic paper shredder.

[Bubbles]

I saw a Facebook post the other day that claimed the best in breed German Shepherd was practically incapable of walking (a "desirable" trait of pure bred German shepherds is ridiculously short back legs). Whether that particular story is true or not, Crufts certainly does have ethical problems.

I think what this is referring to is the sloped back that some shepherds have, rather than short legs.

Ours doesn't have a pronounced sloped back, but I think some of them are because of the stance they put the shepherds in when showing.

Some breeders overdo it.

http://www.examiner.com/article/sloping-vs-straight-back-german-shepherds

[Gordon]

If 3 horses have died in races which they didn't actually have to run, that's being put in harm's way as I understand it. Horses don't die in races if they don't race.

This is undoubtedly true, and in fact the same applies whenever anyone gets on horseback since they are unpredictable.

I recall a time when I was having a quiet Sunday afternoon hack across the moor at Mugdock when a young girl out for a walk with her parents, and who was well away from the riding track where I was, opened a parasol (it was a sunny day) and the horse I was riding, which was mine and he was normally laid-back, got spooked and bolted flat-out towards a fence and there was nothing I could do to stop him from jumping it, which he did and then he thankfully decided to stop.

Whether it is racing or just normal riding there is always a risk to horse and rider - these days I stick to motorcycles: much safer!

[Bubbles]

This is undoubtedly true, and in fact the same applies whenever anyone gets on horseback since they are unpredictable.

I recall a time when I was having a quiet Sunday afternoon hack across the moor at Mugdock when a young girl out for a walk with her parents, and who well away from the riding track where I was, opened a parasol (it was a sunny day) and the horse I was riding, which was mine and he was normally laid-back, got spooked and bolted flat-out towards a fence and there was nothing I could do to stop him from jumping it, which he did and then he thankfully decided to stop.

Whether it is racing or just normal riding there is always a risk to horse and rider - these days   
I stick to motorcycles: much safer!

Some horses/ponies get spooked by motorcycles.

 

It's a bit unnerving when they start rearing and bucking and trying to bolt. ( the horse not the motorcycle  )

 

I was on a steep learning curve, rodeo as well.

Pony trekking