Author Topic: Pay to Pray Scam  (Read 4830 times)

Ricky Spanish

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Pay to Pray Scam
« on: March 20, 2016, 06:51:31 PM »
Targets the vulnerable:

Quote
Pay-to-pray scam finds families caught between faith and desperation.

A Washington judge has ordered the Christian Prayer Center to pay $7m in restitution as attorney general calls for more victims to come forward.
Washington state attorney general’s office to investigate.


The first complaints about the Christian Prayer Center were short and cryptic – but not enough for the Washington state attorney general’s office to investigate. These people bilked me.

But then, a lengthy letter landed, from a family whose members were both heartbroken and furious.

“They had a child with a rare terminal illness,” said assistant attorney general Daniel Davies. “They were looking for hope anywhere they could get it. One of the places they turned to was the Christian Prayer Center.

“When they are going through incredibly difficult situations, often times people turn to prayer,” Davies continued. “They see a website touting that thousands of people will pray for you. They have a pastor, testimonials on the website of people whose prayers were answered.

“The pastor was a sham,” he said. “The testimonials were fictitious as well.”

The child is still dying.

And the family paid and paid. The first $35 they gave to the Christian Prayer Center to help their ailing daughter was one kind of fraud.
No one was praying.
There was no one there to help.


http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/20/pay-to-pray-scam-washington-christian-prayer-center-online
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 06:53:44 PM by Thrud the Barbarian »
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Leonard James

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2016, 06:54:44 PM »
Stealing money from simple people is so wicked.

ippy

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2016, 07:57:30 PM »
Targets the vulnerable:

Nothing new there Thrud, the RC's vatican was built on money acquired by another type of fraud just as bad as the fraud you're refering to in your OP.

ippy

Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 10:06:53 AM »
This is a really nasty scam. IMHO it's even worse than the SE Asian favourite of asking for money for medicine for fictional sick children.

Sassy

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 10:19:10 AM »
Targets the vulnerable:
Is it the same one that I wrote about here. They get you to write your prayer out and ask how important it is, and unless you give them money your prayer does not get posted or prayed for?

http://www1.cbn.com/prayer

Here is a good prayer line your prayers are free. People pray for you and with you if you want. Doesn't cost you anything to have people pray. Also they have better results.

I have asked them to pray for this little girl and her family and all those who are mislead into thinking you can buy from God through man, what gives freely to all who ask.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 10:24:38 AM by Sassy »
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floo

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 10:37:27 AM »
Another example how evil people prey (pun intended) on the gullible! ;D

Hope

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 10:57:55 AM »
Yet another example of mammon taking advantage of people.  I'm not sure about the pedigree of the Chritian Prayer Centre - but suspect it's much the same as the peddlars of the Prosperity Gospel - who ask for donations for  their TV shows, etc.

I notice that pretty well all the examples of this kind are from America; I suspect that that is because the American state religion - capitalism - has been allowed to adopt Christianity in the same way that occurred when the Roman Empire adopted it.

There are, of course, plenty of other excamples of far better practice - Sojourners, for instance - https://sojo.net/
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 11:00:13 AM by Hope »
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Owlswing

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 01:57:16 PM »

I notice that pretty well all the examples of this kind are from America; I suspect that that is because the American state religion - capitalism - has been allowed to adopt Christianity in the same way that occurred when the Roman Empire adopted it.


You have this passage the wrong way round - the American Christian Churches have grabbed hold of the American capitalist dream with both greedy and avariciaous hands, just as the Catholic branch has for centuries - the Catholics are Christian so don't try and differenciate between them and American Protestants. Selling Holy Relics and passing the collection plate to South American peasants who are well below the poverty line and selling Prayers are two sides of the same coin!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Hope

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2016, 02:00:13 PM »
You have this passage the wrong way round - the American Christian Churches have grabbed hold of the American capitalist dream with both greedy and avariciaous hands, just as the Catholic branch has for centuries - the Catholics are Christian so don't try and differenciate between them and American Protestants. Selling Holy Relics and passing the collection plate to South American peasants who are well below the poverty line and selling Prayers are two sides of the same coin!
I suppose it depends on whether you believe that Christianity is synonymous with capitalism, Owl.  I can understand your argument if they are synonymous, but I'd suggest that they aren't.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

floo

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 04:18:05 PM »
What I don't understand is why people need someone to pray for them, when if they feel the need, they can offer up a prayer themselves for free?

Owlswing

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 04:26:54 PM »
I suppose it depends on whether you believe that Christianity is synonymous with capitalism, Owl.  I can understand your argument if they are synonymous, but I'd suggest that they aren't.

Don't talk rubbish! The Christian Church, Catholic and C of E, own huge swathes of land and have huge bank balances, effectively they are businesses, yet they still require contributions from parishioners every Sunday!

They are capitialism personified  just like all other big businesses.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 05:28:24 PM »
Don't talk rubbish! The Christian Church, Catholic and C of E, own huge swathes of land and have huge bank balances, effectively they are businesses, yet they still require contributions from parishioners every Sunday!

They are capitialism personified  just like all other big businesses.

By that reckoning so are most trades unions.

Shaker

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 05:31:26 PM »
By that reckoning so are most trades unions.
Trades unions don't have a belief system which regards money as inimical to it, though.

There's no part of a trade union charter (that I know of) which says that you can't serve money and the trade union both, or that enjoins its members to sell everything they have and give the proceeds to the poor, for example.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 06:28:45 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Hope

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 05:40:18 PM »
Don't talk rubbish! The Christian Church, Catholic and C of E, own huge swathes of land and have huge bank balances, effectively they are businesses, yet they still require contributions from parishioners every Sunday!

They are capitialism personified  just like all other big businesses.
Owl, may I suggest that you take the 'Christian Church' out of the equation, and simply highlight the wealth of the RC and CofE/Anglican churches (at least here in the UK).  Many Baptist/Methodist/other non-conformist groups own buildings but as I'm sure you'll agree owning property doesn't always equate with a healthy cash-flow.  Those buildings have to be maintained and it is often difficult to find funders who will help with thius kind of funding. 

Take our church, for instance; a large Baptist chapel some 150 years old.  Everything we do - be that working with the poor, those in need of food parcels, children, elderly, ... has to be paid for by the collection that we take on a week by week basis.  OK, we get donations of food for the food-bank, from other churches and one of the local supermarkets; we get a reasonable sum for our annual Gift Day collection, which will be used alternatively between supporting activities abroad (3 years ago we collected about £2000 for the 'Against Malaria Foundation' and at home - this year's appeal is for the completion of our specialist homelessness/food-bank/debt-advice/JobClub/emergency housing project (we bought the building a year ago and are in the process of renovating and rearranging it to our needs)

Go beyond the UK, and in some places, the state pays to maintain (some) churches - in France for instance, because the buildings belong to the state.

Go beyond the West and the Christian Church is often to all intents and purposes penniless.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 05:49:11 PM by Hope »
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Rhiannon

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 05:41:12 PM »
What I don't understand is why people need someone to pray for them, when if they feel the need, they can offer up a prayer themselves for free?

Loads of reasons. Some believe in the power of numbers - a bit like extra wattage. For some it's simply sharing a burden. Some don't have the time to pray, and others believe prayer is extra special if carried out by someone in holy orders.

FWIW in case anyone feels the need it's possible to post prayer requests in person at most cathedrals, or via the websites of various holy orders, or on the re:Jesus website.

floo

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2016, 05:44:31 PM »
Loads of reasons. Some believe in the power of numbers - a bit like extra wattage. For some it's simply sharing a burden. Some don't have the time to pray, and others believe prayer is extra special if carried out by someone in holy orders.

FWIW in case anyone feels the need it's possible to post prayer requests in person at most cathedrals, or via the websites of various holy orders, or on the re:Jesus website.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Rhiannon

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2016, 06:13:17 PM »
Bearing in mind you asked why people ask others to pray for them, Floo. Paying for it is never necessary.

floo

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2016, 08:23:59 AM »
Bearing in mind you asked why people ask others to pray for them, Floo. Paying for it is never necessary.

I wonder if god is expecting a cut of the profits from those making money out of prayer? ;D

Leonard James

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2016, 12:49:01 PM »
I wonder if god is expecting a cut of the profits from those making money out of prayer? ;D

Oh, are there shops in heaven then?  ::)

Shaker

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2016, 01:19:28 PM »
Oh, are there shops in heaven then?  ::)
I bet they're only open 10-4 with half an hour's browsing time beforehand.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 01:31:07 PM »
Oh, are there shops in heaven then?  ::)

Probably. ;D

OH MY WORLD!

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2016, 04:21:24 PM »
Leo,
It is wicked to steal money from the simple, but every government does anyways.


Luci,
Something special for ya. Hope it makes you laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r0Fvbi70mg

Alan Burns

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2016, 05:06:40 PM »
Bearing in mind you asked why people ask others to pray for them, Floo. Paying for it is never necessary.
I agree.  You do not need to pay for genuine prayers.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

OH MY WORLD!

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 05:22:31 PM »
I agree Rhi. You do a lot of praying do ya?


But theys got to have money so, give em all yo money!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmlRu6R-cg

Leonard James

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Re: Pay to Pray Scam
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 07:36:15 PM »
Leo,
It is wicked to steal money from the simple, but every government does anyways.


Too true! Fortunately the internet is making it more difficult for them to get away with it ... as the current political crisis in Spain is showing.