What Is Meant By Purpose?

[Jack Knave]

In reading some of the posts on the "Is the non existence of God true for everyone" thread the question of purpose has been mentioned. Purpose in the context of this forum and board refers to something to do with the meaning of life, something 'higher' than ourselves.

I did wonder some time back what purpose God would have for Its existence and as in definitional theory God has nothing 'higher' than Itself it would have no purpose for Its existence. This would prepossess God to be a nihilist.

It would also mean in these terms that life has ultimately no purpose. And in fact regardless of the framework, philosophy, ideology one has this conclusion looks universal to me for this very reason, that what ever is at the top of Life's hierarchy it has nothing 'above' it to give it meaning.

What do others think?

[Shaker]

Something I've said before that I've always found useful is to borrow a pair of terms from causation and to think about purpose in two ways: proximate and ultimate. An ultimate purpose would be just that; it would be an end point, a final terminator of all those "But why ...?" questions. I agree that a God might well provide such an ultimate purpose for humans ... but as you've just pointed out, in having no higher purpose a god itself would have no ultimate purpose.

In any case, I see no reason to posit such an entity so better - and realistic, and true, as far as I'm concerned - not to think of ultimate purpose but of proximate purposes (because there can be more than one purpose in life, can't there? Why wouldn't there be? It could even chop and change throughout the course of an individual's life - why not?). The things we do that give our lives meaning are ours (no matter with however many others we may share them) and usually - not always, but usually - end with our own lives. That's as it should be, to me; if you can't find meaning and purpose in the living of your life, you sure as shit ain't going to get it anywhere else.

The well-worn phrase "The meaning of life" ought to be erased from the English language AFAIC - the very phrase itself, with its definite article, implies that there's only one such meaning (the meaning of life) which you can either succeed in uncovering, or not. This to me is nonsense on stilts. There are are more meanings and purposes in life than can be counted, probably. Human existence has no ultimate meaning or purpose as far as I can see, nothing past (or as it's usually phrased, 'above' or 'beyond', whatever that might mean) itself to give it significance; individual lives may very well have, though. The people who become very good at making the purpose of their lives obvious to others tend to become famous; they become the great novelists and poets, the composers and the painters, the actors, the humanitarians and philanthropists and what have you.

A lot of this same ground was covered in an older thread, by the way: http://goo.gl/VYsqJ9

[Rhiannon]

Yes, there's no universal purpose to life - no bigger picture - but because of that we have responsibility to find the meaning in it that we do.

[ekim]

In Hinduism one of the ideas is that the divinity does not have a purpose as such but is engaged in Leela - spontaneous creative play - perhaps resulting in an infinite variety of forms and forces arising out of an inexhaustible potential.

[Sassy]

In reading some of the posts on the "Is the non existence of God true for everyone" thread the question of purpose has been mentioned. Purpose in the context of this forum and board refers to something to do with the meaning of life, something 'higher' than ourselves.

I did wonder some time back what purpose God would have for Its existence and as in definitional theory God has nothing 'higher' than Itself it would have no purpose for Its existence. This would prepossess God to be a nihilist.

It would also mean in these terms that life has ultimately no purpose. And in fact regardless of the framework, philosophy, ideology one has this conclusion looks universal to me for this very reason, that what ever is at the top of Life's hierarchy it has nothing 'above' it to give it meaning.

What do others think?

In the great scheme of things how are you comparing your outlook to Gods the one with the ability to create all things by literally speaking the words and it comes into being?
What is life, that it requires a purpose. God being the true eternal being, how does purpose come into it?

Do you not enjoy being alive and doing all the things you do?

So where does purpose fit in?

[Sebastian Toe]

the ability to create all things by literally speaking the words and it comes into being?

' literally speaking the words'

Really?

[Bubbles]

' literally speaking the words'

Really?

The words that don't exist yet, because the created thing doesn't exist  .

[Jack Knave]

Something I've said before that I've always found useful is to borrow a pair of terms from causation and to think about purpose in two ways: proximate and ultimate. An ultimate purpose would be just that; it would be an end point, a final terminator of all those "But why ...?" questions. I agree that a God might well provide such an ultimate purpose for humans ... but as you've just pointed out, in having no higher purpose a god itself would have no ultimate purpose.

And as I concluded it would have to be a nihilist. It would seem to follow from that that it could not be conscious for a conscious nihilist, finding no meaning, would surely have no other conclusion than to end its life. So I would propose that the highest order or God or whatever would have to be fully unconscious as an entity.

In any case, I see no reason to posit such an entity so better - and realistic, and true, as far as I'm concerned - not to think of ultimate purpose but of proximate purposes (because there can be more than one purpose in life, can't there? Why wouldn't there be? It could even chop and change throughout the course of an individual's life - why not?). The things we do that give our lives meaning are ours (no matter with however many others we may share them) and usually - not always, but usually - end with our own lives. That's as it should be, to me; if you can't find meaning and purpose in the living of your life, you sure as shit ain't going to get it anywhere else.

I would have thought that purpose in this context would be something 'above' the agent concerned and as such not subject at all on the agents choices but instead imposed upon it as an essence of its nature and the nature of Life itself. You did not choose to be you in your earthly form nor do you choose the attitudes and emotions and other various dispositions you have. You have watched and observed since you were a small child what you liked and disliked, what interested you and what bored you - you did not choose these but only found out when they impressed themselves onto you. This then shows that there is something 'greater' than you and is more fundamental than you and as such points at least to something we could infer as being a kind of purpose or meaning in life.

The well-worn phrase "The meaning of life" ought to be erased from the English language AFAIC - the very phrase itself, with its definite article, implies that there's only one such meaning (the meaning of life) which you can either succeed in uncovering, or not. This to me is nonsense on stilts. There are are more meanings and purposes in life than can be counted, probably. Human existence has no ultimate meaning or purpose as far as I can see, nothing past (or as it's usually phrased, 'above' or 'beyond', whatever that might mean) itself to give it significance; individual lives may very well have, though. The people who become very good at making the purpose of their lives obvious to others tend to become famous; they become the great novelists and poets, the composers and the painters, the actors, the humanitarians and philanthropists and what have you.

So carrying on from my bit above, where do the ideas for novels, poetry, music etc. come from? And it isn't just these per se but why does a particular person have a certain style and a given angle on things. They haven't chosen that themselves as I have explained about. They have just found that that is the way they are - but why that way and not some other characteristic way.

[Jack Knave]

In the great scheme of things how are you comparing your outlook to Gods the one with the ability to create all things by literally speaking the words and it comes into being?
What is life, that it requires a purpose. God being the true eternal being, how does purpose come into it?

Do you not enjoy being alive and doing all the things you do?

So where does purpose fit in?

The purpose being aired here isn't an earth bound purpose nor does it necessarily imply meaning as often take by people but could just refer to an ultimate force and law that governs all things.

As for your protestations about your God you know the kind of reply the likes of me would give to them as you have had them endlessly thrown at you on numerous occasions. And you have failed to address the request for tangible proof of your claims.

[Jack Knave]

' literally speaking the words'

Really?

"God has got a voice box and Its going to use it."

[Shaker]

From the quotes thread:

"Life has meaning not because of what we have or what we know or what we are 'in ourselves' but because we care about something. Popular melodrama aside, meaning is not deep inside of us but on the outside, in the ideas, things and people we attach ourselves to and their attachment to us."—Robert C. Solomon

[Rhiannon]

That's an interesting idea because there's also the idea found in Buddhism for example, that attachment is the root of our suffering. So I think this is where I divide purpose off from meaning - if my purpose is to be a Christian IT worker married to Barry what purpose is there when I lose my faith, get made redundant and Barry has run off with the woman next door? The purpose in my life is simply to live it, as fully as possible.

Meaning is different because it accommodates impermanence. Being a mother gives me meaning in my life even though my job is to get the children to the point where they no longer need me. Walking in mist gives my life meaning even though it may be gone in an hour. The love that I have for learning also includes a love of unlearning. When whatever has given me meaning in this moment has gone, I look for the meaning in the next.

Love of any kind requires vulnerability but without it meaning evaporates and the purpose of life as I see it - simply to live life fully - vanishes utterly. I'm not sure it's possible to love without attachment - maybe Buddhists manage it, but I'm not one - but maybe a more peaceful way of approaching attachment is an understanding that unattachment may follow for one reason or another, and to love and be loved anyway.

[Jack Knave]

From the quotes thread:

"Life has meaning not because of what we have or what we know or what we are 'in ourselves' but because we care about something. Popular melodrama aside, meaning is not deep inside of us but on the outside, in the ideas, things and people we attach ourselves to and their attachment to us."—Robert C. Solomon

The context of the threads subject purpose is that it is something independent of what we think and feel. It is a condition that is indifferent to our wishes and indifferent to our wishes that there should be no other purpose that what we make for ourselves. The fact that you didn't choose to be the way you are, your character etc. just shows that you are a passenger in all this ebb and flow of life.