Author Topic: Can I just ask:  (Read 17541 times)

Ricky Spanish

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Can I just ask:
« on: March 23, 2016, 01:37:40 PM »
Why is it so important to you that there is an afterlife?

What is so wrong with the fact that we all just eventually return to dust, making no real impact on the history of planet Earth?

Why do you need to think/believe there is an afterlife??
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Shaker

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 01:55:23 PM »
Can of worms: open.

To me ultimately it all comes down to ego. It can't simply or entirely be about the dread of annihilation, of non-being, since we all have that for several hours every single day (or rather night, usually) when we're not dreaming, a period when from the subjective point of view we simply don't exist. It has to reduce to egotism of a form, as I see it. While we're alive, unless we're in a coma or something similar, we can affect the world and the things in it. We can have an impact upon the world and that includes other beings. When we act or even merely speak we have an effect upon the stuff of the world; even if nobody takes any notice of what we say, we have been heard and that in itself is a change in the state of the world. Death takes us out of that once and for all and for ever. To be alive is to be able to do, at least potentially; to be dead is never able to do anything at all ever again. So the ego concocts a way in which it can continue, where it can go on even though there's nothing to support it - Freud said that in the unconscious we are all convinced of our immortality, because we can't apprehend a world without us and our ability to act in it.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Ricky Spanish

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 01:59:16 PM »
But why think there is an afterlife at all?

What is the purpose behind it?
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Shaker

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 02:01:22 PM »
But why think there is an afterlife at all?

What is the purpose behind it?
It provides a theatre, so to speak, in which the ego can persist - in which the personality can carry on.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Bubbles

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 02:05:42 PM »
But why think there is an afterlife at all?

What is the purpose behind it?

I think it brings comfort to the fear of the Unknown.


Ricky Spanish

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 02:08:59 PM »
So if people think you is bad - you goes to hell.

But if you is remembered fondly - you goes to heaven.
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

SusanDoris

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 02:14:33 PM »
As soon as one person had the idea and expressed it, the chance of it being denied throughout pre- and recorded history was lost!! Even when the human species is about to become extinct, I just bet you there will be someone there jollying some of the others along and saying they should think of  the after-life.
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Ricky Spanish

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 02:27:30 PM »
Why do we need an Afterlife?
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Bubbles

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 02:35:28 PM »
Because many of us can't imagine not existing

Leonard James

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2016, 03:30:11 PM »
Because many of us can't imagine not existing

Just think about before you were born!  :)

Hope

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2016, 09:17:27 PM »
Why is it so important to you that there is an afterlife?

What is so wrong with the fact that we all just eventually return to dust, making no real impact on the history of planet Earth?

Why do you need to think/believe there is an afterlife??
Not sure that anyone disagrees with the fact that our physical element eventually return to dust - its a highly Biblical principle.  However, for those of us who do not believe that the physical is the only element of humanity, there needs to be an outcome for those other, non-physical, elements that we believe humanity is equally composed of.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Hope

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2016, 09:18:40 PM »
But why think there is an afterlife at all?

What is the purpose behind it?
You might as well ask what the purpose of anything is?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Hope

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2016, 09:19:36 PM »
So if people think you is bad - you goes to hell.

But if you is remembered fondly - you goes to heaven.
I suppose it depends on how you define 'bad' or 'good' or remembered fondly or otherwise.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 09:27:34 PM »
Why is it so important to you that there is an afterlife?

What is so wrong with the fact that we all just eventually return to dust, making no real impact on the history of planet Earth?

Why do you need to think/believe there is an afterlife??
I don't believe that people would carry on how they do if they didn't secretly believe in an afterlife if they really reflected on it........which they don't.

Shaker

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 09:41:48 PM »
I've reflected on it.

I think it's an utterly puerile idea unworthy of serious-minded rational grown-ups.

Your turn.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2016, 09:59:07 PM »
I've reflected on it.

I think it's an utterly puerile idea unworthy of serious-minded rational grown-ups.

Your turn.
If people like you really believed this was the one life we had why would you be wasting your time on here durrying shite?

Rhiannon

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2016, 10:02:18 PM »
You can't make a rational argument by simply saying that people don't really mean what they say, Vlad.

I don't believe in an afterlife.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2016, 10:05:50 PM »
You can't make a rational argument by simply saying that people don't really mean what they say, Vlad.

I don't believe in an afterlife.
So what?

torridon

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2016, 10:20:57 PM »
Why is it so important to you that there is an afterlife?

What is so wrong with the fact that we all just eventually return to dust, making no real impact on the history of planet Earth?

Why do you need to think/believe there is an afterlife??

I don't believe in an afterlife, although I do understand that such beliefs arise out of ancient dissonances that are still not resolved in the minds of modern humans.  Hope frequently touches on this - that we seem to have a dual nature, part physical and part spiritual, and whilst we all accept that physical things wither and decay, spiritual things, or the things of the mind, they don't seem to be made of stuff at all, so the idea of them decaying does not make sense intuitively. A face can become wrinkly with age, but how does age affect longing; can a tendency to untidiness catch an infection ? When we think of a person who has just died, it is not their body we are remembering, it is their character, their joys and fears, their sense of humour, their little habits.  These are the things that a person is made of.  Our minds fabricate a compelling sense of personhood and we cannot help but live day to day and moment to moment within that illusion.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2016, 05:33:47 AM »
Why is it so important to you that there is an afterlife?

What is so wrong with the fact that we all just eventually return to dust,

What a  nice thought .....it must be a great comfort to you.

Rhiannon

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2016, 06:02:12 AM »
You can't make a rational argument by simply saying that people don't really mean what they say, Vlad.

I don't believe in an afterlife.

Well according to you that's a lie. Or at best a self- delusion.

Shaker

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2016, 06:23:31 AM »
If people like you really believed this was the one life we had why would you be wasting your time on here durrying shite?
What's time-wasting about enjoying yourself, precisely?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

john

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2016, 12:15:48 PM »
Sigmund Freud writing in
The Future of an Illusion.

Talks about mankind’s belief in the afterlife thus;

They will have to admit to themselves the full extent of their helplessness and their insignificance in the machinery of the universe, they can no longer be the centre of creation, no longer be the object of tender care on the part of a beneficent providence. Surely infantilism is destined to be surmounted. We may call this education to reality.....

You are afraid, probably, that they will not stand up to the hard test? Well, let us hope they will. It is something, at any rate, to know that one is thrown upon one’s own resources. One learns to make proper use of them. And men are not entirely without assistance. Their scientific knowledge has taught them much since the deluge. As honest smallholders on this earth they will know how to cultivate their plot in such a way as it supports them. They will probably succeed in achieving a state of things in which life will become tolerable for everyone and in which civilization is no longer oppressive to anyone. Then, with one of our fellow unbelievers, they will be able to say, without regret, we leave heaven to the angels and sparrows.     
"Try again. Fail again. Fail Better". Samuel Beckett

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2016, 06:17:24 PM »
What's time-wasting about enjoying yourself, precisely?
Hmmmmmm.........there's an element of truth in that I suppose.....
It must be OUR time your wasting :)

2Corrie

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Re: Can I just ask:
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2016, 11:49:58 PM »
If people like you really believed this was the one life we had why would you be wasting your time on here durrying shite?

We too should be redeeming the time. Time to move on.
"It is finished."