Are sins like homosexuality still condemned in the New Covenant of Christ?

[Shaker]

True - seems they got divorced when the humble microscope revealed that they were inescapably meant for each other!

Your knowledge of history needs some attention to say the least.

Microscopes date from the early seventeenth century.

There are papyrus records of contraceptive usage dating back to ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia c. 2000BCE.

Try again.

[Shaker]

Yes used by wily if homophobic secularists to avoid any anti harrassment edicts.

Still not up to speed with the whole secularism thing I see, Vlad.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Still not up to speed with the whole secularism thing I see, Vlad.

OK perhaps you can help me out with the correct term. what do you call the vast majority of sly homophobes who statistics demands, are not religious?

Perhaps You are the wrong person to ask as you strike me as being the first to be in denial about where the vastest pool of homophobia resides...........

Have a nice day.

[Shaker]

OK perhaps you can help me out with the correct term. what do you call the vast majority of sly homophobes who statistics demands, are not religious?

Homophobes, usually.

Perhaps You are the wrong person to ask as you strike me as being the first to be in denial about where the vastest pool of homophobia resides...........

Where does it reside?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Homophobes, usually.
Where does it reside?

The behaviours that people like yourself attribute to religious people usually are found in the general non religious population and the non religious population is statistically the largest pool e.g. non religious people use the word 'gay' in a sly derogatory way as a reflection of legally suppressed feelings towards homosexuality in general.

This slyness allows the non religious person who is so disposed to fool themselves into thinking they are right on whereas they can sublimate their socially conservative core thoughts in a sly and plausibly deniable way.

That unfortunately is the case in a country where the majority are non religious. 

[Gordon]

The behaviours that people like yourself attribute to religious people usually are found in the general non religious population and the non religious population is statistically the largest pool e.g. non religious people use the word 'gay' in a sly derogatory way as a reflection of legally suppressed feelings towards homosexuality in general.

This slyness allows the non religious person who is so disposed to fool themselves into thinking they are right on whereas they can sublimate their socially conservative core thoughts in a sly and plausibly deniable way.

That unfortunately is the case in a country where the majority are non religious.

Nope - I've read it several times and it makes even less sense than your usual contributions (which aren't exactly overburdened sense-wise).

Perhaps your random sentence generator is buckling under the strain (again)!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Nope - I've read it several times and it makes even less sense than your usual contributions (which aren't exactly overburdened sense-wise).

Perhaps your random sentence generator is buckling under the strain (again)!

Let me sum it up then.
The majority of people in the country are not religious.
The biggest pool of sly homophobia is in the non religious.

[Gordon]

Let me sum it up then.
The majority of people in the country are not religious.
The biggest pool of sly homophobia is in the non religious.

So, first you need to define 'sly homophobia' then explain why this is different from common or garden homophobia, then you need to provide the method whereby you've measured this and then, of course, present the results.

Over to you.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So, first you need to define 'sly homophobia' then explain why this is different from common or garden homophobia, then you need to provide the method whereby you've measured this and then, of course, present the results.

Over to you.

I have defined it and why it is sly.
If you want to talk about common or garden homophobia, let me put it this way.
The majority of people in this country are non religious.
The largest pool of common or Garden homophobia is among the non religious. However since it is illegal to be openly homophobic the tendency is sublimated in sly homophobic acts e.g referring to things as not very good as 'gay'.

We know that homophobia by is almost always attributed to the religious by the antitheists on this site. Statistically though most things which are seen as negative are found in the general population...which is mainly non religious. It is reasonable to suppose particularly if one has vast and current life experience as opposed to being an old guy spending his days on say a forum, that this is so with homophobia.

It is a bit rich therefore for a group of people who have merely asserted homophobia as a religious trait without any backup to be demanding a methodology.

let me just repeat what you can't face up to again. Statistically non religious people make up the majority of people. Statistically they are more likely to represent the biggest pool of homophobia.

[Gordon]

The largest pool of common or Garden homophobia is among the non religious.

Citation required.

However since it is illegal to be openly homophobic the tendency is sublimated in sly homophobic acts e.g referring to things as not very good as 'gay'.

.

Citation required

Statistically though most things which are seen as negative are found in the general population...which is mainly non religious.

And the statistics are?

It is reasonable to suppose particularly if one has vast and current life experience as opposed to being an old guy spending his days on say a forum, that this is so with homophobia.

If this is indeed 'reasonable' then present your reasoning.

let me just repeat what you can't face up to again. Statistically non religious people make up the majority of people. Statistically they are more likely to represent the biggest pool of homophobia.

Then you'll be able to demonstrate this using data and the outcomes of statistical tests applied to these data - should be interesting.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Citation required.
.

Citation required

And the statistics are?

If this is indeed 'reasonable' then present your reasoning.

Then you'll be able to demonstrate this using data and the outcomes of statistical tests applied to these data - should be interesting.

Let me spell it out for you again.
The biggest proportion of the population is non religious.
The largest pool of homophobia is therefore likely to be amongst the non religious.
That is entirely reasonable.
We know that there is homophobia in sport. The majority of sports fans are non religious.
We know that the term Gay to mean less than good is widespread, the majority of users are likely to be non religious. That they don't know that it also means 'homosexual' is highly unlikely.

Now either try to argue, using citations or methodology, the fondly held and peddled antitheist myth that homophobia is the almost exclusive preserve of the religious or deny that it ever was.

Over to you.

[Gordon]

Let me spell it out for you again.
The biggest proportion of the population is non religious.
The largest pool of homophobia is therefore likely to be amongst the non religious.
That is entirely reasonable.
We know that there is homophobia in sport. The majority of sports fans are non religious.
We know that the term Gay to mean less than good is widespread, the majority of users are likely to be non religious. That they don't know that it also means 'homosexual' is highly unlikely.

Let me spell it out for you, Vlad: you see before I retired I used to 'do' statistics as part of my career path so stuff like sampling methods, data collection methods and the proper use of appropriate statistical tests is something I know about: and your non sequiturs based on generalisations are fairly hopeless.

For instance, you seem to be assuming simplistic association based on your claim that there are more non-theists than theists (we'll put your evidence for this to one side for now) then there are more homophobes who are non-theists - so what data have you used and what is the strength of the association?

By the way, there are more right-handed than left- handed people so does your  'reasoning' extend to an association between homophobia and handedness too?

Over to you.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Let me spell it out for you, Vlad: you see before I retired I used 'do' statistics as part of my career path so stuff like sampling methods, data collection methods and the proper use of appropriate statistical tests is something I know about: and your non sequiturs based on generalisations are fairly hopeless.

For instance, you seem to be assuming simplistic association based on your claim that there are more non-theists than theists (we'll put your evidence for this to one side for now) then there are more homophobes who are non-theists - so what data have you used and what is the strength of the association?

By the way, there are more right-handed than left- handed people so does your  'reasoning' extend to an association between homophobia and handedness too?

Over to you.

So you have no evidence then that homophobia is the almost exclusive preserve of the religious.

We can therefore discount the numerous threads based on that premise then.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Gordon,

Actually I think there may be some truth in what Vlad is talking about, I have two friends ( no not you and Sane, I do have other friends ) both are atheist and both are the live and let live type or so they say, but in homosexual company they become very edgy, tripping over their own tongues, hell one time one of my mates was verbally attacked by a homosexual guy, he was accused of being patronising.

I think this is a real problem for homosexual people, people need to recognise that they have that little spark of homophobia inside them and address it, only then will they feel more comfortable in homosexual company.

And no, I am not saying that everyone has that little spark inside them, just that some people might be fooling themselves, also it is most definitely not just a religious issue.

Gonnagle.

[Gordon]

So you have no evidence then that homophobia is the almost exclusive preserve of the religious.

We can therefore discount the numerous threads based on that premise then.

So you are stats-dodging as well as building more straw men.

That it has been noted that the likes of the CofE has argued against social progress, such as SSM, is not the same thing as claiming homophobia is the preserve of the religious: I don't recall anyone saying specifically that so perhaps you could cite the instances.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So you are stats-dodging as well as building more straw men.
.

You mean you have stats to show that the premise of numerous forum threads....that homophobia is the almost exclusive preserve of the religious......is true.

Please present them.

[Gordon]

Dear Gordon,

Actually I think there may be some truth in what Vlad is talking about, I have two friends ( no not you and Sane, I do have other friends ) both are atheist and both are the live and let live type or so they say, but in homosexual company they become very edgy, tripping over their own tongues, hell one time one of my mates was verbally attacked by a homosexual guy, he was accused of being patronising.

I think this is a real problem for homosexual people, people need to recognise that they have that little spark of homophobia inside them and address it, only then will they feel more comfortable in homosexual company.

And no, I am not saying that everyone has that little spark inside them, just that some people might be fooling themselves, also it is most definitely not just a religious issue.

Gonnagle.

I don't doubt that Gonners  - but Vlad is making a claim based on what he thinks is statistical evidence , and he clearly doesn't understand statistics, that atheists like me see homophobia as being primarily a position held by the religious - and I don't since like you, I too have encountered homophobes who haven't been religious.

I think Vlad is asserting statistical inference without providing the supporting stats.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

........... he clearly doesn't understand statistics

Ok, show me the stats that show homophobia to be extremely rare in the non religious
yet rife among the religious and talk me through them.

[Gordon]

You mean you have stats to show that the premise of numerous forum threads....that homophobia is the almost exclusive preserve of the religious......is true.

Please present them.

No I dont mean that, and now you are being silly, Vlad - remember it is you and not I who started citing statistics, albeit simplistically: I'm merely questioning your competence.

If you want to do a content analysis study on posts in this forum then go ahead, but remember to set out your methods and data analysis options that would be needed.

[Gordon]

Ok, show me the stats that show homophobia to be extremely rare in the non religious
yet rife among the religious and talk me through them.

Vlad - I'm not making any statistical claims: you are, so the burden of proof in yours.

I'm simply querying the unsupported generisations you made earlier.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No I dont mean that, and now you are being silly, Vlad

No I think you had better take each of my statements point by point rather than assuming.

If they are in your view unreasonable then you should put up a counter argument.

Do you disagree with my reasoning that there is likely to be more homophobia in a larger population than in a smaller population?

Do you disagree that the majority narrative on this board is that homophobia is focussed within the religious community?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad - I'm not making any statistical claims

Because there are no statistics which back the central religionethics narrative: that Homophobia is the almost exclusive preserve of the religious, maybe?

[Nearly Sane]

I don't care where homophobia and hate is most prevalent. I get pissed off about people using it as a support of their position. Spent too much time with people beaten up because they were gay to deal with people indulging in their position.

[Owlswing]

Whether gay or not De Nile is a river in Egypt which was hundred of miles to the southwest of where Paul was active.

Don't give up the day job, as a comedian you are crap!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Don't give up the day job, as a comedian you are crap!

I thought it was funny and at the end of the day that's what counts.