Are sins like homosexuality still condemned in the New Covenant of Christ?

[Owlswing]

The biggest pool of sly homophobia is in the non religious.

Statistics in confirmation of the load of bollocks please.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Statistics in confirmation of the load of bollocks please.

A load of bollocks?It has always ever been two Owlswing..............or in your case .....none.

[Spud]

You are correct that something feeling 'natural' doesn't make it ok. However, gay relationships come in as many varieties as straight ones do; there's nothing intrinsically harmful in them, and so to prohibit them is both pointless and cruel.

As for your point on sex being just for procreation - no. That isn't the case. To illustrate, I once knew a family from the Hare Krishna sect - couples who adhere to that religion have to refrain from all sexual contact unless they are specificly intending to conceive a child. The wife had all manner of sex toys and not because she thought they were going to get her pregnant. Humans don't only have fertile periods when they desire sex, but want it whether they want to have children, intend to have them or even can't have them or don't want them at all.

As an aside, the Hare Krishna top guru chap resigned from his position because he's fallen in love with a woman other than his wife. Even though he and the other woman had never had any physical contact at all - not even brushing fingers accidentally. This idea that human emotion and pain can be even partly controlled and avoided according to ensuring particular body parts go in particular places is risible.

Unfortunately, Rhi, the Bible does say that people who practise homosexuality are not in God's kingdom. This is stated in 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10. So that answers Sassy's point, and means that Christians need to abstain from this as they would abstain from adultery - if they want to be living for God. The passage in acts where the apostles decided which aspects of the Mosaic law needed to be kept by Gentile believers, is to do with those things that God prohibited in Leviticus 17 and 18 which applied to Israelites and non Israelites living with them. The connection should be clear.
But in answer to your second point: yes, people desire sex and that desire is essential to continuing the human race. But there are obvious limits beyomd which the sexual instinct needs to be restrained, and one of those is with homosexual urges. There is a reflex in men which deals with excess build up of sperm. Therefore there is no biological requirement for a man to have sex with another person. I don't know if the equivalent happens with women, and the OT mentions nocturnal emissions as being normal and not sinful. I think the area I need to think through more is how homosexual relationships cause harm. I was friends with a gay bloke and a lesbian at one time, and I was aware that I was personally affected by their homosexuality, because I fancied the lesbian and the bloke fancied me... A right muddle!

[Shaker]

I think the area I need to think through more is how homosexual relationships cause harm.

They don't.

Moreover, it's not merely that they don't cause harm but can be the cause of actual, explicit and positive good. See ... well, innumerable people for details. See our own Leonardo Di Jamesio for details and work your way out from there.

There are those (like Hope on this forum*) who claim that homosexuality causes damage to society, but when asked to specify and quantify this alleged "damage" always run away like the snivelling cowards and spineless bigots that they are, so can for all purposes (save target practice) be roundly ignored.

* For example: http://goo.gl/bJim2s

[ippy]

I'm not entirely sure he knows what pantheism means. He seems to think it's something that people do.

Isn't pantheism something  practiced on your knees after having drunk to much beer, spirits or both?

ippy.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

They don't.

Moreover, it's not merely that they don't cause harm but can be the cause of actual, explicit and positive good. See ... well, innumerable people for details. See our own Leonardo Di Jamesio for details and work your way out from there.

I'm waiting eagerly for The Leonard James Story..............You see I've had trouble sleeping lately.

Doesn't he support Ippy in his controversial approach to the treatment of Christians?

[ippy]

I'm waiting eagerly for The Leonard James Story..............You see I've had trouble sleeping lately.

Doesn't he support Ippy in his controversial approach to the treatment of Christians?

Out of interest Vlad, what's this controversial approach to the treatment of christians you're saying about me, only apart from locking them up, a little bit of torture and the odd murder of one or two of them now and again, I bear them no particular ill will Vlad, so what is it?

ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Out of interest Vlad, what's this controversial approach to the treatment of christians you're saying about me, only apart from locking them up, a little bit of torture and the odd murder of one or two of them now and again, I bear them no particular ill

Crikey.....You've mellowed a bit.

[Owlswing]

A load of bollocks?It has always ever been two Owlswing..............or in your case .....none.

I suggect that you either provide proof of this statement or withdraw it.

I have four children to prove their existence - your proof of their non-existence is . . . ?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I suggect that you either provide proof of this statement or withdraw it.

I have four children to prove their existence - your proof of their non-existence is . . . ?

did I say you were missing your balls?......I meant your sense of humour.

[Sebastian Toe]

did I say you were missing your balls?......I meant your sense of humour.

I'm sure that you thought that was funny.
And that's all that counts, allegedly!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm sure that you thought that was funny.
And that's all that counts, allegedly!

....Am I the only one who thinks the new Work and pensions secretary looks like Ricky Gervais, the atheist comedian?...........................I think we all know what's coming next........

[Shaker]

....Am I the only one who thinks the new Work and pensions secretary looks like Ricky Gervais

Almost certainly.

[Nearly Sane]

Almost certainly.

.And whatever he looks like, he's been supportive of Christian 'curing' of homosexuality

[Owlswing]

 did I say you were missing your balls?......I meant your sense of humour.

YOU lying sack of shit!

Re: Are sins like homosexuality still condemned in the New Covenant of Christ?
« Reply #126 on: Today at 19:28:04 » From Vlad



Quote from: Owlswing on Today at 19:22:25

    Statistics in confirmation of the load of bollocks please.

A load of bollocks? It has always ever been two Owlswing..............or in your case .....none.

I always suspected that you were a gutless coward - thanks for the confirmation.

May your ear'oles turn to arse'oles and shit all over your shoulders!

[Brownie]

I do not know the statistics but  in my lifetime I have come across many homophobic people who have no religious belief.  It does seem odd, shocking even, but is a fact.  Not on forums of course  .

I've also known a few gay men who were extremely racist which is going off the point somewhat but I found that unpleasant, as I find racism unpleasant anywhere.

The word ''Gay'' was not coined as a perjorative term and perhaps Len or someone will corroborate that.  As I said before, I first heard it as a description of homosexuals in 1965.  It's possible that the original meaning of 'Gay' (capital G as opposed to 'gay' which means happy and bubbly), has altered somewhat with time, as happens with many words used to describe people.

[Nearly Sane]

I do not know the statistics but  in my lifetime I have come across many homophobic people who have no religious belief.  It does seem odd, shocking even, but is a fact.  Not on forums of course  .

I've also known a few gay men who were extremely racist which is going off the point somewhat but I found that unpleasant, as I find racism unpleasant anywhere.

The word ''Gay'' was not coined as a perjorative term and perhaps Len or someone will corroborate that.  As I said before, I first heard it as a description of homosexuals in 1965.  It's possible that the original meaning of 'Gay' (capital G as opposed to 'gay' which means happy and bubbly), has altered somewhat with time, as happens with many words used to describe people.

And I'll ask again, why do you think that arguing that homosexuals should be discriminated against is somehow more acceptable if it is for genuinely religious reasons'?

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Gordon,

Actually I think there may be some truth in what Vlad is talking about, I have two friends ( no not you and Sane, I do have other friends ) both are atheist and both are the live and let live type or so they say, but in homosexual company they become very edgy, tripping over their own tongues, hell one time one of my mates was verbally attacked by a homosexual guy, he was accused of being patronising.

I think this is a real problem for homosexual people, people need to recognise that they have that little spark of homophobia inside them and address it, only then will they feel more comfortable in homosexual company.

And no, I am not saying that everyone has that little spark inside them, just that some people might be fooling themselves, also it is most definitely not just a religious issue.

Gonnagle.

Do I think all atheists are gay friendly? No. Does that mean as Vlad has touted on here that atheists who support gay rights are just doing it because they are antitheist, ffs no!

Read the meretricious shite he has consistently poured out on this , Gonzo and get back to me. Tell me that you support his idea that I'm only supporting the rights of friends to annoy Christians, or perhaps get back to him and tell him to fuck off, that perhaps having seen people beaten up because apparently their assailants'  thug God thinks what they do with their dick or pussy is so bad that they deserve a beating, that just maybe I think my friends do not deserve to be discriminated or beaten up because being gay is a-feckin-ok!




Read his posts, properly, gonzo.

[Aruntraveller]

I've also known a few gay men who were extremely racist which is going off the point somewhat but I found that unpleasant, as I find racism unpleasant anywhere.

As a white gay man who has lived with an Asian gay man these last 37 years I can attest to that.

But that isn't the point. That some gay men hold the same repugnant views as another section of society is not that surprising - I mean for goodness sake some gay men vote conservative!

As I have tried to point out elsewhere - the majority of people who hold these stupid views are not religious or atheist. They are the great unthinking led by their baser emotions.

[Gordon]

As a white gay man who has lived with an Asian gay man these last 37 years I can attest to that.

But that isn't the point. That some gay men hold the same repugnant views as another section of society is not that surprising - I mean for goodness sake some gay men vote conservative!

As I have tried to point out elsewhere - the majority of people who hold these stupid views are not religious or atheist. They are the great unthinking led by their baser emotions.

Yep - you're not wrong TV.

[SqueakyVoice]

....Am I the only one who thinks the new Work and pensions secretary looks like Ricky Gervais, the atheist comedian?...........................I think we all know what's coming next........

That would be another new thread to try and distract from the shite you're spouting on this one, then.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

No big man, you read my post properly, the important part is some truth but maybe I should have said smidgeon or a tiny bit.

My point in my post was to highlight the fact that there are some who are uncomfortable in homosexual company, why!! homophobia, which is not exclusively a religious failing.

Homophobia is a very contentious word but for me it covers a very wide spectrum, most liberal people would probably say, I am not homophobic but I think they are deluding themselves and this is something that needs to be addressed.

I myself have come a very long way in combating my own homophobia, my problem, but I feel that other people don't confront their homophobia, they might suppress it, sweep it under the carpet but this does homosexual people an injustice.

I personally have never hated homosexuals, now there might be a fear element, I don't know and this is something I have to work through but I am still homophobic, but I think about it, I confront it, I don't sweep it under the carpet, one thing I am almost sure of, it is not a religious thing, I did not have a religious up bringing, I came to my faith in my late teens, my homophobia ( I think ) is a cultural thing.

Now Sane old buddy the above is from the heart, open and honest, now let me say a few words on what I think about Vlads ramblings, first of all, this is a open forum, freedom of speech has been discussed many times on this very forum.

Vlad has a great fan club on here and I count you as one of his fans, every time the man opens his gub, his fans all come out of the cupboard, you, Shaker, Bluehillside, Gordon etc etc etc, now on this forum ( it is only a forum ) you have the God given right to ignore or to attack, respond, give your own thoughts, for me and one of the things I have tried to learn, try to walk a mile in the other man's shoe's.

Now I think I have said enough, to end, some of the subject we discuss on here are very emotional, homosexuality being just one, but I think we need to remember that it is only a forum, if Vlad pushes your buttons, that's fine, he doesn't push mine.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

My point in my post was to highlight the fact that there are some who are uncomfortable in homosexual company, why!! homophobia, which is not exclusively a religious failing.

No, Gonners, it is not exclusively religious ... but I think many cultures were influenced by their particular religion. So you don't have to be religious to be homophobic, but you are receiving s/hand the homophobia (however slight), unaware of its origin.

[Sassy]

Your god is an evil bigoted b*stard if he deemed homosexual acts to be sinful. However, you have absolutely no evidence ANYTHING in the Bible is anything to do with the thinking of god, which more than likely doesn't exist. The documents making up the Bible are very human in context, surely an omnipotent deity would be well above human faults and failings?

Says she who makes it her life's work to insult the bible, the believer and especially Jesus Christ and God.
For someone who does not believes there is no evidence that God exists etc. You spend an awful long time blaming God for your life and the way you think about religion.

In truth you are bigger hypocrit than anyone. Because you allow yourself to hate that which you believe does not exist.
How can you hate something you claim not to exist. In truth you are calling yourself and all mankind an evil bigoted bastard because if there was no God, then the bible is the work of men.

Would men really write such things making God the centre of everything and not themselves as Pharaoh in Egypt?
You see you see everything in a detrimental way. You appear to think you can insult someone you do not believe exist.
When in reality if God does not exist then you have to accept responsibility as a member of mankind that it is people like yourself and came from people like yourself. So in truth the world would be full of evil, bigoted bastards those who believe anything to be right they first believed to be wrong.

Truth is you are blinkered to the life and world you live in. In reality the bible is written in a time where people were bigoted, evil, liars who would sell their own family for a meal. Because the truth is that only since God and his people did a time come in where people behaved themselves and learned to love in difficult circumstances.

If you take away the blame for what you believe does not exist then the only person to blame is the still on the stage "YOU"
and those other humans like you.

As you can see humankind would have to take the blame for their own evil.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do I think all atheists are gay friendly? No. Does that mean as Vlad has touted on here that atheists who support gay rights are just doing it because they are antitheist, ffs no!

Read the meretricious shite he has consistently poured out on this , Gonzo and get back to me. Tell me that you support his idea that I'm only supporting the rights of friends to annoy Christians, or perhaps get back to him and tell him to fuck off, that perhaps having seen people beaten up because apparently their assailants'  thug God thinks what they do with their dick or pussy is so bad that they deserve a beating, that just maybe I think my friends do not deserve to be discriminated or beaten up because being gay is a-feckin-ok!




Read his posts, properly, gonzo.

I don't know if what I say here will calm your ire and frankly I can only donate half a shit if it does not.

I do not include you as those who specifically focus on religious homophobia and ignore the vast pool of casual and entrenched homophobia in the general population which happens to be non religious. The argument they mount is utter humbug.

Are you an antitheist? I know not.