Author Topic: Are sins like homosexuality still condemned in the New Covenant of Christ?  (Read 79975 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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So, if Gavin and Barry are going at it, then Barry "transfers his genetic material" into his wife's nunny, that's fine?

But if Barry gets a bit over excited and jizzes on Gavin, then that's a bad thing?

Obviously it's an important question that I... I mean we...I mean Barry. And Gavin. And Mrs Barry...um...
Hang on, We've got Barry and Gavin, Barry's wife and a Nun? what's going on here?

Rhiannon

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You can pay to watch it on certain tv channels I believe.

Shaker

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You can pay to watch it on certain tv channels I believe.
What, bonobos shagging?

I blame Attenborough.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

wigginhall

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Shaker has dealt very well with the fallacy of equating the natural with the good, or is/ought, in other words. 

I was thinking about making a cup of tea with an electric kettle, a tea-bag and a ceramic mug.   All of these things are unnatural in a sense; i.e. they are not found in the wild rain-forest, but must be bought from shops, and are man-made.

But we don't think that making a cup of tea is unnatural really.   We don't try to make one with a fire made from birch-twigs, tea freshly plucked in Sri Lanka, and a cup made of a giant leaf. 

I suppose it's sex that gets people salivating about the natural and unnatural, trying to find a rationale for their bigotry, usually. 
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Brownie

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Yes, and the use of the word 'fallacy' is bandied about quite a bit, albeit the spelling is atrocious  ;).
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

wigginhall

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It's Freud's fault.  He would go on about phallusies, and then there was phallocentric worlds, and you ended up with fail-safe condoms that were anything but, hence there's many a slip betwixt phallus and lip.  Highly unnatural, of course!
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Brownie

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Yeah, what with that and nuns, the mind boggles doesn't it, fella?
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Bubbles

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Yeah, what with that and nuns, the mind boggles doesn't it, fella?

🙈

Spud

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You should take your own advice with regard to reading the thread.

Nobody is disputing the means by which conception occurs.

What is being challenged is the opinion of King Edward of Maris Piper that the only legitimate, permissible form of sexual intercourse is that in which conception is possible and can result in offspring.

Anything else is not only unnatural but dishonouring of their bodies, according to Romans 1:24-27.

Aruntraveller

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Anything else is not only unnatural but dishonouring of their bodies, according to Romans 1:24-27.

OK lets just take random nonsense from the book:

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“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

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‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

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“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)


Its a Good Book. Pah.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Stranger

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Anything else is not only unnatural but dishonouring of their bodies, according to Romans 1:24-27.

So, married heterosexual couples (even those have or intend to have children) are "dishonouring their bodies" if they enjoy other sex acts together?

Are you for real?
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Shaker

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Anything else is not only unnatural but dishonouring of their bodies, according to Romans 1:24-27.
Bullshit.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

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Anything else is not only unnatural but dishonouring of their bodies, according to Romans 1:24-27.

Whilst the Bible says some sensible things, it also says some very stupid things as well!  >:(

Gordon

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Anything else is not only unnatural but dishonouring of their bodies, according to Romans 1:24-27.

Is that your authority? Really, is that it???

If so it can simply be ignored as being ancient opinion that is now at odds with a modern civilised society.

Bubbles

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Once upon a time......

People thought the parts of the body had one specific purpose ( God designed it with one purpose in mind)

Your anus for example was for waste removal and nothing else, the Woman's vagina was just for a mans penis to enter and nothing else, well apart from giving birth.

Anything else was considered as defiling the body.

So those vibrating sex AIDS were also out.

It was all considered unnatural and a perversion of what it was all designed for.

In fact having sex doggy fashion was probably considered dodgy...........  :-\

In fact at times I think enjoying sex was also frowned on.

Having sex just for fun the RC still frowns on as it considers contraception wrong and seems to think sex without babies or preventing babies is sinful.


« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 09:31:56 AM by Rose »

Rhiannon

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Anything else is not only unnatural but dishonouring of their bodies, according to Romans 1:24-27.

Paul was a right miserable prude, wasn't he?


Sassy

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He won't have got there before you did though!
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

It won't be from digging a hole on my part, though.
You going with him to keep him company? ;D
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Sheer waffle: the point I have with Spud is the difference between 'is' and 'ought', since he is fallaciously assuming the latter from the former. You seem to have missed this critical aspect of the discussion.

Gordon don't make yourself look any less sincere and truthful than you already have.

The fact is clear:- Nature has made it so only a man and a woman can procreate naturally by sexual intercourse.
A fact of life, and no matter how you look at it, the only evidence that nature wanted Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve or Anne and Eve to make babies.

Whatever your point does not take away from the true point being made which I am speaking about.
Waffle and excuses from yourself and others don't wash in this particular case. My posts have been clear and to the point.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Shaker

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The fact is clear:- Nature has made it so only a man and a woman can procreate naturally by sexual intercourse.
Well, you're clearly unbothered by making yourself look stupid, indeed more so with each post.

We all know how babies are made. You don't need to keep spelling it out because we're all familiar with the specifics and nobody is disputing them.

Spud is using this neutral, value-free fact about a particular state of affairs in the world to construct a moral edict that this is the only acceptable and permissible form of sexual behaviour for humans. This is a philosophical dead end, it being pretty well universally acknowledged that you can't derive moral prescriptions and prohibitions simply from facts about the world - in other words, he is wrong to think that he can derive an ought from an is.

Do you understand now?
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A fact of life, and no matter how you look at it, the only evidence that nature wanted Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve or Anne and Eve to make babies.
What about hermaphroditic creatures? There are said to be about 65,000 species of those. Why didn't nature want "Adam and Eve" ::)  to create offspring there?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 11:11:54 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sassy

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Is it really so difficult to understand that natures way for human kind to procreate is a man and a woman?
Is this fact of life so hard to relate to because people cannot accept the truth for what it is?

To ridicule a person for giving the example of it as evidence that it is the natural way by nature shows a lack of ability to accept truth by those attacking Spud.

I personally do not see sex as a commodity to bandy about anywhere and everywhere and I am sure a lot of people who have slept around (especially women) who end up unable to have children because of an STD have regretted it too.
Are we really so immature and so against others having different beliefs that we would allow the stupidity displayed in replies on this thread to be acceptable?

Spud had made a perfectly good answer. He has shown evidence that suggests intercourse between a man and a woman is the only natural way in nature to conceive a child.

I personally believe it shows a lack of maturity and even honesty that people would try and make stupid arguments as if it will lessen the truth.

What you do is take away any credibility that atheists, pagans or agnostics have any open mindedness when it comes to God and would never be willing to change their mind regardless of any evidence.
They cannot even accept the truth of Nature and the evidence it gives.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Shaker

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Is it really so difficult to understand that natures way for human kind to procreate is a man and a woman?
It's pretty clear by this stage that you're incapable of understanding that nobody is disputing this. The discussion moved on when Mr Potato Head decided that this is the only acceptable form of sexual expression, but hey, if missing the point completely and utterly and repeating what nobody else denies is the full extent of your engagement with this discussion, by all means carry on.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Aruntraveller

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Spud had made a perfectly good answer. He has shown evidence that suggests intercourse between a man and a woman is the only natural way in nature to conceive a child.

Sass - nobody, but nobody is disputing that. So just stop repeating yourself.

What they are saying is that to take that as the preferred model for sexual behaviour and say it is the only reason to have sex is nonsense. And to go further, to make a moral judgement from a biological action makes no sense.

I don't know why you are having trouble with this line of reasoning - it is quite simple.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Sassy

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Well, you're clearly unbothered by making yourself look stupid, indeed more so with each post.

We all know how babies are made. You don't need to keep spelling it out because we're all familiar with the specifics and nobody is disputing them.

Spud is using this neutral, value-free fact about a particular state of affairs in the world to construct a moral edict that this is the only acceptable and permissible form of sexual behaviour for humans. This is a philosophical dead end, it being pretty well universally acknowledged that you can't derive moral prescriptions and prohibitions simply from facts about the world - in other words, he is wrong to think that he can derive an ought from an is.

Do you understand now?What about hermaphroditic creatures? There are said to be about 65,000 species of those. Why didn't nature want "Adam and Eve" ::)  to create offspring there?

Tell me what qualifications you have SHAKER.

The truth is that sexual behaviour being acceptable or permissible is a chosen way. But the only evidence of a natural way of sexual behaviour is a man and woman being able to procreate.

In truth a man can stick his willy anywhere. But it won't make it natural. Be it in an animal or another person. It won't make it acceptable either. Because it is all about choice.

Spud is a Christian so we both know that he believes only sex between a man and woman, a married couple is the natural and normal way for him. When asked for evidence it is the normal and natural way in his faith and the world. We see he uses the example of man and woman having sexual intercourse being able to procreate.

How he sees it is is right for him. How you see it, is wrong for you.
But nonetheless, he has given evidence independent of his faith that would suggests natures way is a man and a woman.

Our lusts are not always leading us in the right way. A man who lusts after a woman and then attacks and rapes her.
Is that sex really natural is it a loving and committed relationship or a consensual act?
Does the fact he can perform the act make it natural? As humans we make choices and we choose our partners.
But being able to do something, in itself does not make it natural or right.


Given the greater scheme of things...Spud makes an excellent point of evidence. That only a man and woman can produce a baby through natural sexual intercourse. Whatever the choices we make what ever way we choose to have sexual relationships, none of the other ways can produce a child. Whilst for Spud it is that way and no others.
We know that sexual relations do not decide how a baby is made. Nature does. In the fact of that argument there is none to change it.

Spud has not changed anything he has said previously. As a Christian he has always proclaimed that his beliefs are such.
So it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact he has now given you a natural evidence that no other sexual intercourse but a man and a woman will produce a baby. Nature makes the statement not spud.

We are talking about mankind and no diverting to any other animal will change that fact.

In this case it was HUMANS which were being discussed.

So no! You just have to admit you can't twist your way out of it this time.


We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Aruntraveller

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Nature makes the statement not spud.

Nature makes all kinds of statements - but they are devoid of morality. It just is.

So smallpox is natural - do we say that's just fine and dandy - let it just take its course? Of course we don't, we use unnatural means to defeat it.


Whether something is natural or not does not bestow any morality thereon. Surely you get that.

Oh and PS - it seems to me that Spud is reducing us to the level of animals by saying that the purpose of sex should only be for procreation.  ::)
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Sassy

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It's pretty clear by this stage that you're incapable of understanding that nobody is disputing this. The discussion moved on when Mr Potato Head decided that this is the only acceptable form of sexual expression, but hey, if missing the point completely and utterly and repeating what nobody else denies is the full extent of your engagement with this discussion, by all means carry on.

It is clear that you used the above to try and get out of admitting that Spud was right.
So admit it.. that the evidence by nature shows that the natural way of humans is for a man and a woman.
Because only they can procreate naturally together by sexual intercourse.

Admit it, that nature favours the man and woman.

Mr potatoes head as you referred to him I find a little weird as you are the one with all the specks in your spud eyes.
You knew before the discussion what Spuds beliefs were. So by nature only a man and woman is favoured as being the correct way. You can stick your willy where you want, it won't make it natural or right.

Because you get to choose. Therefore choice plays a part. As for having babies in a sexual relationship only Nature gets to choose and they choose the heterosexual sexual relations.

What Spud believes otherwise has absolutely nothing to do with you attacking him and making it about something else.

So go on admit it... Nature makes the man and woman the natural way of sexual relations because only they can procreate.

He never said other sexual relations didn't happen. It was clear he was discussing all sexual relations and making a point of natural evidence that only male and female can have the baby. So me thinks the last minute ditch to try and save yourself was an epic fail since the argument was about the natural way of sexual intercourse being a man and woman as  opposed to the other ways.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."