Are sins like homosexuality still condemned in the New Covenant of Christ?

[floo]

Oh really, why are you bringing up extremes?  Hard cases never prove anything.  I was talking about ordinary reasonable families, such as you and I know, and you know it.  Can't believe you chimed in with that one - with floo, unthinking, hot on your tail.
We have raped, abused and beaten women in England too - you only have to look at the news to hear about them.  Plus [lenty of child abuse.  I don't go around thinking everyone is a potential abuser and neither do you, hopefully

I don't trust anyone unless I have reason to do so.

[Rhiannon]

Boxing is acceptable - men fighting, that's what men are supposed to do. Even the traditional view of heterosexual relationships is one of inequality. We still have very odd concepts about what are 'masculine' and what are 'feminine' attributes and it is still viewed as more acceptable for girls to cry than boys - and women to feel more than men.

I wonder if seeing a loving gay relationship somehow makes it unavoidable to look at the vulnerability of love in general.

[floo]

Boxing is acceptable - men fighting, that's what men are supposed to do. Even the traditional view of heterosexual relationships is one of inequality. We still have very odd concepts about what are 'masculine' and what are 'feminine' attributes and it is still viewed as more acceptable for girls to cry than boys - and women to feel more than men.

I wonder if seeing a loving gay relationship somehow makes it unavoidable to look at the vulnerability of love in general.

Boxing has caused many men to be brain damaged, I am surprised it has not been banned in a health and safety culture as we have in the UK.

[Rhiannon]

Boxing has caused many men to be brain damaged, I am surprised it has not been banned in a health and safety culture as we have in the UK.

I can't stand it, but as Trent says it doesn't frighten the horses in the way two blokes holding hands in the street does. Probably because we've had some very skewed ideas on what it is to be male in our society for a very long time. Patriarchy hasn't fucked up things for women only.

[Rhiannon]

I have no idea how relevant this is, but it's a story I like, so...

Some friends of my family's relocated from the UK (where being out was fine) to the USA (where it wasn't quite so easy). They soon realised that one of their neighbours was watching them with binoculars, so eventually they decided to give her something to look at. When they got home from work they'd change into their clubbing gear, put on all the lights and then go about their usual evening - cooking, watching telly, putting the cat out etc. Then at bedtime they'd pull the curtains, get into their pyjamas and go to bed.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Morning Shaker, I'll answer one point now as am a bit puched for time.As Gabriella pointed out, though, in hetero couples the anatomy allows sex.
Structure governs function - one of the principles of Osteopathy.

If by sex you mean penetrative sex, then yes, statistically, anal penetration has a greater risk of causing harm and transmission of infection due to risk of tears in the tissue membrane and contact with faeces.

Presumably there is a greater spread of infection amongst men who perform oral sex on other men, as that question is in the blood donor screening process. But sex workers and drug users are also screened out because of the higher spread of infection risk - so it is not about homophobia.

Other forms of sex between men don't cause an issue.

[Shaker]

Boxing has caused many men to be brain damaged, I am surprised it has not been banned in a health and safety culture as we have in the UK.

Can you - should you - ban something that people freely, willingly and voluntarily choose to do even at the risk or actuality of harm to themselves? Based on things like the notorious Spanner case from some  years back the law says no, in certain cases, but plenty of people disagreed with that ruling then and still do now.

[Shaker]

If by sex you mean penetrative sex, then yes, statistically, anal penetration has a greater risk of causing harm and transmission of infection due to risk of tears in the tissue membrane and contact with faeces.

Given the statistical imbalance between hetero- and homosexual people in the population there will be vastly many more heterosexual people having anal penetration than homosexual men. Simple numbers are at play here. Are they taken into account when giving blood, for example?

[Rhiannon]

Arguably the availability of boxing gyms does take young men - and increasingly women - away from lifestyles that are catastrophic and give them both discipline and a sense of family.

It's a funny sentimental world, boxing. Kellie Maloney has not only been accepted but has gone back into boxing promotion almost immediately after her story broke. I'm not sure too many other sports that are constantly in the public eye would just get on with it in the same way.

[wigginhall]

Freud is supposed to have said that anatomy is destiny - widely discredited now - but Spud seems to be saying that anatomy should determine morality.   In other words, God made the tabs and slots so that tab A should go in slot B, and woe betide you if you get the wrong tab in the wrong slot, even if its delicious, you'll make baby Jesus cry. 

It's just a private opinion, and should not detain us really. 

[Rhiannon]

It's all down to Paul and his hang-ups really. Freud would have had a field day with that one.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Wigs,

Slots and tabs, you are just a old romantic at heart, Dear do you mind if I insert my tab into your slot, hell! that is my new chat up line

Gonnagle.

[wigginhall]

Dear Wigs,

Slots and tabs, you are just a old romantic at heart, Dear do you mind if I insert my tab into your slot, hell! that is my new chat up line

Gonnagle.

I did think of designing a range of greeting cards, with jazzy slogans - my tab longs for your slot, or slotwards aims the great tab, roses are red, violets are blue, my slot is yearning for a tab or two, from you, etc.

[Rhiannon]

From tabs and slots I'd got to the Wiccan athame and cup, and the vagina being a sheath or scabbard (literal translation) for a sword, gladius being slang for penis, apparently.

You can see why some feminists find 'cunt' less offensive.

[wigginhall]

Of course, the irony is that God has provided us with multiple tabs, if you include fingers and tongues, and multiple slots, modesty forbids me from outlining them.   However, only some combinations have a bar-code by Yahweh. 

[Aruntraveller]

However, only some combinations have a bar-code by Yahweh. 

 

[Brownie]

I understood, from working in a hospital, that stomach acid kills off harmful bacteria so I would have thought oral sex was safe.  Also men are 'tougher' around the backside than women so there is less chance of damage.  (I've no idea why any woman would want to do that, I know it is 'fashionable' atm.)  Men have a prostate gland, something we don't have, which apparently enhances pleasure.  Plenty of heterosexual men like that to be tickled too.

It's quite true that sex workers are banned from giving blood, odd considering they probably have more safe sex than anyone else.  Their livelihood depends on it.

[floo]

I understood, from working in a hospital, that stomach acid kills off harmful bacteria so I would have thought oral sex was safe.  Also men are 'tougher' around the backside than women so there is less chance of damage.  (I've no idea why any woman would want to do that, I know it is 'fashionable' atm.)  Men have a prostate gland, something we don't have, which apparently enhances pleasure.  Plenty of heterosexual men like that to be tickled too.

It's quite true that sex workers are banned from giving blood, odd considering they probably have more safe sex than anyone else.  Their livelihood depends on it.

Do they?

[Brownie]

Yes, condoms are mandatory.  The rules about blood donation are there for the few who take risks and those who use iv drugs but a prostitute would generally take every precaution.  A sex worker who is quite sure she (or he) is absolutely clean, and wants to give blood, is not going to be truthful before donating anyway.

The fact is, donated blood needs to be tested for infection before it is given to anyone else, the most unlikely and unknowing people could pass on infection.

(Going back to previous point floo, I am sure you are careful about who you trust on a personal level but writing off a large proportion of the males in the Indian subcontinent cannot be right.  It reminds me of strident feminists some years back who said that ''all men are rapists''.  We don't have room to talk in our culture.)

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Given the statistical imbalance between hetero- and homosexual people in the population there will be vastly many more heterosexual people having anal penetration than homosexual men. Simple numbers are at play here. Are they taken into account when giving blood, for example?

In terms of blood donor screening, I personally think it should be based on behaviour and not on the sexual identity adopted by someone.

There are probably a combination of factors that are taken into consideration. The current screening rules have prevented disease transmission through receipt of donated blood so even though you are probably right about the absolute numbers - heterosexuals have not been deferred. Maybe they should be.

  I suppose increased screening will mean not enough donors so I think they are trying to find the right balance to try to ensure adequate, safe supplies.

[floo]

Yes, condoms are mandatory.  The rules about blood donation are there for the few who take risks and those who use iv drugs but a prostitute would generally take every precaution.  A sex worker who is quite sure she (or he) is absolutely clean, and wants to give blood, is not going to be truthful before donating anyway.

The fact is, donated blood needs to be tested for infection before it is given to anyone else, the most unlikely and unknowing people could pass on infection.

(Going back to previous point floo, I am sure you are careful about who you trust on a personal level but writing off a large proportion of the males in the Indian subcontinent cannot be right.  It reminds me of strident feminists some years back who said that ''all men are rapists''.  We don't have room to talk in our culture.)

I didn't say all men were rapists, did I?

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I understood, from working in a hospital, that stomach acid kills off harmful bacteria so I would have thought oral sex was safe.

Cuts and sores increase risk of infection. Hep A can be passed through oral contact with faeces. 

Also men are 'tougher' around the backside than women so there is less chance of damage.

They are? I haven't heard about that. Got a link? 

The issue with men who identify as gay or bi is that they will probably be selecting their partners from the gay/bi group and because of the higher percentage of that group with HIV, it means there is a greater likelihood of having penetrative sex with an infected person.

It's quite true that sex workers are banned from giving blood, odd considering they probably have more safe sex than anyone else.  Their livelihood depends on it.

Presumably the stats show they have higher rates of infection compared to non-sex workers.

[Spud]

Boxing has caused many men to be brain damaged, I am surprised it has not been banned in a health and safety culture as we have in the UK.

So long as there is mutual consent, it is healthy and safe, I thought?

[wigginhall]

One of the arguments against banning boxing, is that it would go underground, and would be unsupervised.   Still, you could apply this argument to lots of things, e.g. dog-fighting, but then that has gone underground. 

[Stranger]

So long as there is mutual consent, it is healthy and safe, I thought?

Who has argued that mutual consent makes something healthy and safe...?