Are sins like homosexuality still condemned in the New Covenant of Christ?

[Brownie]

I didn't say all men were rapists, did I?

No and I didn't say you did!  Did you read my entire post floo?  What I said was your attitude towards the majority of men in the Indian subcontinent was reminiscent of what strident feminists used to say (all men are rapists), not that many years ago.   That wasn't true, neither is it true that the majority of Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi men abuse their wives.

Anyway let's get back to homosexuals, at least we all know where we are on that one.

[Rhiannon]

Surely the difference is the legal and cultural attitudes to the victims?

[Owlswing]

Oh really, why are you bringing up extremes?  Hard cases never prove anything.  I was talking about ordinary reasonable families, such as you and I know, and you know it.  Can't believe you chimed in with that one - with floo, unthinking, hot on your tail.
We have raped, abused and beaten women in England too - you only have to look at the news to hear about them.  Plus [lenty of child abuse.  I don't go around thinking everyone is a potential abuser and neither do you, hopefully

Of course I don't, but, in the countries that I mentioned, these kinds of assaults are treated as perfectly normal behaviour for males against females. males go unpunished and a women is sentenced to be raped by an all -male court!

Your post above seems to suggest that such happenings are acceptable here too because they are part of the culture of those who have moved here! Not by me they ain't!

And again with the put-down for Floo - she is as entitled to her opinion and I to mine as you are to yours!

[Brownie]

Owlswing:  Your post above seems to suggest that such happenings are acceptable here too because they are part of the culture of those who have moved here! Not by me they ain't!

I didn't mean that Owlswing.  I can't help feeling that I wasn't clear at all, or else my post was not read thoroughly.  I certainly wasn't thinking of people who have moved here but people of our culture who do such things, and of course I don't think they are in any way acceptable.  Did you really think I did?

My intention was not to put down floo and apologise to her if that is how I came across, but she was straight on your heels agreeing, appearing not to have thought it out.  Floo is quite good at one liner put downs anyway and she knows me well enough as I do her, there's no animosity.  I'd never stifle anyone's opinion but this is a discussion forum and we are bound to disagree at times.  We do need to read eachother's posts properly though and not just jump on one sentence out of context.  Gabriella undoubtedly knows more about this subject than either of us, perhaps she'll say something though we have gone off topic.

Please let's get back to homosexuality.  Can't believe that is actually more civilised  .

[Aruntraveller]

Please let's get back to homosexuality.  Can't believe that is actually more civilised 

Excuse me - I'll have you know I'm very civilised

[Brownie]

Blimey, don't tell me I've offended you too??!!!

Now where were we?

[Owlswing]

Please let's get back to homosexuality.  Can't believe that is actually more civilised  .

More civilised than what or whom particularly?

I have worked and been friends with homosexuals who are several orders of magnitude more civilised than some heterosexuals that I have worked with and known.

The reverse also applies - one homosexual I knew as a schoolboy was, and as far as I am able to ascertain, still is, one of the most unpleasant humans that has drawn breath.

Anothger with whom I had the misfortune to work for about five years alientaed just aboiut everyone because he considered that, as a homosexual, he was enetitled not to be treated equally with heterosexuals but better than them.

Please explain your "Can't believe that is actually more civilised" comment.

[Nearly Sane]

More civilised than what or whom particularly?

I have worked and been friends with homosexuals who are several orders of magnitude more civilised than some heterosexuals that I have worked with and known.

The reverse also applies - one homosexual I knew as a schoolboy was, and as far as I am able to ascertain, still is, one of the most unpleasant humans that has drawn breath.

Anothger with whom I had the misfortune to work for about five years alientaed just aboiut everyone because he considered that, as a homosexual, he was enetitled not to be treated equally with heterosexuals but better than them.

Please explain your "Can't believe that is actually more civilised" comment.

And none of the above is against Brownie's views. The more civilised comment is about people's behaviour and reactions on the board. Now and again we all need to count to ten, higher in some cases.

[Owlswing]

And none of the above is against Brownie's views. The more civilised comment is about people's behaviour and reactions on the board. Now and again we all need to count to ten, higher in some cases.

I am sure that Brownie can speak for herself. Please allow her to do so before you jump in.

[Nearly Sane]

I am sure that Brownie can speak for herself. Please allow her to do so before you jump in.

Yes, I'm sure she can but you wouldn't if someone took, oh,  let's say Rhiannon, the wrong way, so stop with the random rules that you wouldn't follow yourself.

[Owlswing]

Yes, I'm sure she can but you wouldn't if someone took, oh,  let's say Rhiannon, the wrong way, so stop with the random rules that you wouldn't follow yourself.

I cannot remember ever having done so despite several occasions when perople have take Rhiannon the wrong way - usually because they haven't read what she says - unlike me she rarely make ambiguous posts!

And, in view of the fact that you do not know me - do not predict my actions or, like Hope and Sassy, think that you know what I think or know.

You may argue how you wish against anything that I say, your prerogative after all, but do it for yourself not someone else!

Your comment above sounds reminiscent of BA's everlasting bleat of "hypocrite".

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Of course I don't, but, in the countries that I mentioned, these kinds of assaults are treated as perfectly normal behaviour for males against females. males go unpunished and a women is sentenced to be raped by an all -male court!

Your post above seems to suggest that such happenings are acceptable here too because they are part of the culture of those who have moved here! Not by me they ain't!

Brownie's post might suggest that to you, but that's because your posts suggest you are someone who looks for a reason to get self-righteously belligerent  even when one doesn't exist. You seem to enjoy it, given your self-induced explosive rants all over the forum.

Given we are not talking about local tribal kangaroo courts in rural parts of India or Pakistan, where corrupt politicians rely on the strong-arm tactics of local leaders to order the locals to vote a particular way, and given that these courts haven't been a problem here, and given that gang rape is evident in local British sub-cultures - you should worry about local British culture raping and exploiting women and children without any help from other cultures that come to the UK.

And no, the punishments of rural kangaroo courts such as gang rape are not considered normal, which is why they are flagged in the local press and there are demonstrations and protests in cities in India and Pakistan demanding that the illegal rural courts be closed down. You should get yourself better informed.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I cannot remember ever having done so despite several occasions when perople have take Rhiannon the wrong way - usually because they haven't read what she says - unlike me she rarely make ambiguous posts!

And, in view of the fact that you do not know me - do not predict my actions or, like Hope and Sassy, think that you know what I think or know.

You may argue how you wish against anything that I say, your prerogative after all, but do it for yourself not someone else!

Arguing for someone else is pretty common on here - you've done it yourself. I suggest you get used to it if you intend sticking around - though you can still entertain us with a self-induced explosive rant if you want...

[Nearly Sane]

I cannot remember ever having done so despite several occasions when perople have take Rhiannon the wrong way - usually because they haven't read what she says - unlike me she rarely make ambiguous posts!

And, in view of the fact that you do not know me - do not predict my actions or, like Hope and Sassy, think that you know what I think or know.

You may argue how you wish against anything that I say, your prerogative after all, but do it for yourself not someone else!

Your comment above sounds reminiscent of BA's everlasting bleat of "hypocrite".

People continually pick up other's on here about something they have said to someone, and yes, i've seen you do it. Your blatant attempt to poison the well doesn't mean you are not a hypocrite.

[floo]

I AM NOT OFFENDED BY ANY COMMENTS DIRECTED AT ME, unless they accuse me of lying, or comments made about the faith of my children, who can't answer for themselves as they are not members of this forum, then I get very annoyed.

Anyway getting back to the subject of homosexuality. I think discriminating against gays and treating them as lesser mortals should be illegal just as racism is.

[Brownie]

I think it is illegal floo, no-one is allowed to discriminate against gay people with regard to employment, housing etc. Anti-gay hate propaganda is criminal.  We can't stop anyone thinking what they want to think though, or speaking in private, even if we'd like to change their attitude.  We are, however, approaching a time when no-one will think twice about anyone being gay so that's something to be thankful for.

[floo]

I think it is illegal floo, no-one is allowed to discriminate against gay people with regard to employment, housing etc. Anti-gay hate propaganda is criminal.  We can't stop anyone thinking what they want to think though, or speaking in private, even if we'd like to change their attitude.  We are, however, approaching a time when no-one will think twice about anyone being gay so that's something to be thankful for.

But shouldn't anti-gay comments on a public forum be illegal if that is the case? If people made openly racist comments they would be in the deep proverbial, and the forum could also be in bother if they weren't banned.

[Sassy]

What I find extraordinary is the fact that all the talk about sexual relations none have mentioned the most important thing about relationships.

The emotional and stable support that two people in love give to each other. A man and a woman are not just about sex and what goes where. God gave Eve to Adam because she was taken from him and was part of him. Eve was a match for Adam to bring him all the things he needed as a man both physically and mentally.

Sometimes we need to stop seeing the physical side to embellish the emotional side of human beings.
Relationships are not really built on sex.  Somewhere along the way it appears that whilst sex crowns a relationship it is not the be and end all of a relationship.

Sexual relations in a loving caring relationships deepen the relationship but a relationship which is emotionally secure will face any problems in the physical area together and with support.

I personally find bantering of the nature on this thread distasteful. I am all for a laugh and making silly remarks when it is not a serious topic. But one couple I know who are gay have been together over 20 years now. They have no sexual relationship, by that I mean penetrable but they are in love with each other. Strange, I know and for some it would be difficult to understand.
But they are happy are they are. 

Sexual relations are not a competition they are something between two people which should be kept between two people.
I would not want people to think I took them so lightly. Sex and relationships are important but it should never be about what others think or society putting on pressure. NOT about performance but exchanging the emotionally felt into the physically felt.

Love is what is needed as well as respect and care for our partner to make a relationship work.  We need to be faithful and also sincere. We need to love the person before we take it to the level of physical. Otherwise it isn't worth anything.

[Sassy]

Arguing for someone else is pretty common on here - you've done it yourself. I suggest you get used to it if you intend sticking around - though you can still entertain us with a self-induced explosive rant if you want...

TEMPTATION  No please don't tempt him... enough is enough....
He can Rant for the whole of the UK, no make that the world... 

[Sassy]

I AM NOT OFFENDED BY ANY COMMENTS DIRECTED AT ME, unless they accuse me of lying, or comments made about the faith of my children, who can't answer for themselves as they are not members of this forum, then I get very annoyed.

Anyway getting back to the subject of homosexuality. I think discriminating against gays and treating them as lesser mortals should be illegal just as racism is.

As a matter of interest...How do you suppose discriminating against gays could be done in a way to make them lesser mortals?

Do you think atheists using them in arguments as a rod with which to beat the Christian could be such a way?

Just asking?

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Why bother to restrain sexual desire if you are an adult, in a consenting relationship, gay or straight, married or unmarried and not cheating on a partner? There is NOTHING wrong with sex providing one takes the necessary precautions.

It's only recently that modern medicine has been able to come up with any precautions that help negate a lot of the harm caused by sex. Not that long ago people used to die of STDs or become infertile or have to deal with unwanted pregnancies that could lead to death while having an abortion or death in childbirth, or a life of poverty raising a child on their own.

There has been a recent increase in infections transmitted through sex, so despite the precautions available and the huge amount of education and information out there, there are plenty of people still not using those precautions. It seems pretty clear that sex is having a harmful effect on society if people are so caught up in their sexual desire, it prevents their brain from engaging enough to take some basic precautions.

I don't think commenting on the harmful effects of high-risk sexual behaviour is discriminatory. That would be like saying we can't comment negatively on high-risk sex games if it is consensual.

[floo]

As a matter of interest...How do you suppose discriminating against gays could be done in a way to make them lesser mortals?

Do you think atheists using them in arguments as a rod with which to beat the Christian could be such a way?

Just asking?

The idiots who describe homosexual love as 'sinful' are demeaning gays.

[floo]

It's only recently that modern medicine has been able to come up with any precautions that help negate a lot of the harm caused by sex. Not that long ago people used to die of STDs or become infertile or have to deal with unwanted pregnancies that could lead to death while having an abortion or death in childbirth, or a life of poverty raising a child on their own.

There has been a recent increase in infections transmitted through sex, so despite the precautions available and the huge amount of education and information out there, there are plenty of people still not using those precautions. It seems pretty clear that sex is having a harmful effect on society if people are so caught up in their sexual desire, it prevents their brain from engaging enough to take some basic precautions.

I don't think commenting on the harmful effects of high-risk sexual behaviour is discriminatory. That would be like saying we can't comment negatively on high-risk sex games if it is consensual.

People who don't have safe sex are idiots.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

The idiots who describe homosexual love as 'sinful' are demeaning gays.

Not sure what love has to do with anything - that's an emotion. Sex is an act. I thought the OP was about actions, not emotions.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

People who don't have safe sex are idiots.

Yes, but that's why we have laws and social pressure - to try and limit the damage the idiots cause.