Are sins like homosexuality still condemned in the New Covenant of Christ?

[floo]

Not sure what love has to do with anything - that's an emotion. Sex is an act. I thought the OP was about actions, not emotions.

By homosexual love, I meant sex as well as emotion.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

As a matter of interest...How do you suppose discriminating against gays could be done in a way to make them lesser mortals?

By denying them the same rights as heterosexuals. Obviously really.

Do you think atheists using them in arguments as a rod with which to beat the Christian could be such a way?

No.

I have never seen anyone use homosexuality as a stick to beat Christians with. I have seen people challenging people with vile homophobic views though.

Just asking?

No problem.


How is the apology coming along?

Just asking.

[floo]

Yes, but that's why we have laws and social pressure - to try and limit the damage the idiots cause.

To which laws are you referring?

Of course having sex with lots of different people is not wise. My comments about sex were aimed at those who believe one has to be in a heterosexual, married relationship before having sex. I see nothing wrong in having unmarried sex , gay or straight, in a consenting, adult, steady relationship.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

By homosexual love, I meant sex as well as emotion.

Ok but emotion doesn't cause the spread of infection. It's sex or sharing needles that has the potential to do that.

[floo]

Ok but emotion doesn't cause the spread of infection. It's sex or sharing needles that has the potential to do that.

What have needles got to do with sex? Gay or straight, people need to take sensible precautions when having sex.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

To which laws are you referring?

For example preventing a man who has had sex with a man in the last 12 months from donating blood because of the higher rates of serious sexually transmitted infections amongst that group therefore the greater risk of them being infected. A woman who has had sex with a man who has previously had sex with a man in the last 12 months is also barred from donating blood for 12 months due to the risk of the blood being infected.

Of course having sex with lots of different people is not wise. My comments about sex were aimed at those who believe one has to be in a heterosexual, married relationship before having sex. I see nothing wrong in having unmarried sex , gay or straight, in a consenting, adult, steady relationship.

What's your definition of a steady relationship?

[floo]

For example preventing a man who has had sex with a man in the last 12 months from donating blood because of the higher rates of serious sexually transmitted infections amongst that group therefore the greater risk of them being infected. A woman who has had sex with a man who has previously had sex with a man in the last 12 months is also barred from donating blood for 12 months due to the risk of the blood being infected.
What's your definition of a steady relationship?

People who are in an exclusive relationship. It is people, gay or straight, who keep bed swapping who are likely to have STDs, especially if they aren't taking proper precautions.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

What have needles got to do with sex? Gay or straight, people need to take sensible precautions when having sex.

Nothing - it's another example of a high risk activity and people are not accused of being phobic against drug users if they make negative comments about their behaviour and the harm it causes society. Similarly people who make negative comments about the risks associated with sexual activity are not being phobic or kill-joys.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

People who are in an exclusive relationship. It is people, gay or straight, who keep bed swapping who are likely to have STDs, especially if they aren't taking proper precautions.

Exclusive relationships for how long? 2 weeks, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years?

[floo]

Exclusive relationships for how long? 2 weeks, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years?

YAWN!

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Since you seem to have run out of answers on the rules relating to sex in order to protect society, hopefully you now realise why sex is a subject for debate on this forum and why there are lots of different opinions on what those rules could be.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

People who are in an exclusive relationship. It is people, gay or straight, who keep bed swapping who are likely to have STDs, especially if they aren't taking proper precautions.

There is a greater risk for men who have sex with men. I am not really interested in whether they self-identify as gay or straight.

[horsethorn]

What I find extraordinary is the fact that all the talk about sexual relations none have mentioned the most important thing about relationships.

The emotional and stable support that two people in love give to each other....

Sometimes we need to stop seeing the physical side to embellish the emotional side of human beings.
Relationships are not really built on sex.  Somewhere along the way it appears that whilst sex crowns a relationship it is not the be and end all of a relationship.

Sexual relations in a loving caring relationships deepen the relationship but a relationship which is emotionally secure will face any problems in the physical area together and with support.

...

Love is what is needed as well as respect and care for our partner to make a relationship work.  We need to be faithful and also sincere.

I agree with all these. I wonder if AB does?

ht

[Brownie]

I do too, it's a very thoughtful and loving post.

[Sassy]

Quote from: Sassy on Today at 10:05:56 AM
As a matter of interest...How do you suppose discriminating against gays could be done in a way to make them lesser mortals?

By denying them the same rights as heterosexuals. Obviously really.

Paedophiles want the same right to have sex with children as adults do with each other... are we demeaning them by saying they are wrong and it is a sin?
Don't be so bloody stupid and arrogant. I have to say you and floo and people like you are responsible for the way homosexuals couples have to put up with ignorance and name calling. You add to the problem you don't help them.
The best thing you can do is shut up on the subject.

Quote
Do you think atheists using them in arguments as a rod with which to beat the Christian could be such a way?

No.
I have never seen anyone use homosexuality as a stick to beat Christians with. I have seen people challenging people with vile homophobic views though.
No problem.

See ignorance even towards your own damning behaviour. If you let things be they would not have such a hard time.
Your opinions are as bad as your refuting the truth. Everyone knows that there is no vile homophobic views held by the Christians at all on this site. Just your false accusations and using such as a rod to beat the Christians. You have proved my point. Because only YOU believe any vile homophobic views actually exist.

Tell us ALL those vile homophobic views here posted by Christians and explain point by point with post reference what is vile about them. You can't they don't exist only in your mind. Who really is the bigot here?

How is the apology coming along?

As I said:  this post adds to my evidence of what you truly are... And there is no apology required only on your part to Christians here and the homosexuals who post here.

Just asking.
[/quote]

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Oh dear oh dear. What a rant.

Paedophiles want the same right to have sex with children as adults do with each other... are we demeaning them by saying they are wrong and it is a sin?

Equating consenting relationships with those in which no consent can be given tells us just about all we need to know about your ability to hold a position based on reason.

Don't be so bloody stupid and arrogant. I have to say you and floo and people like you are responsible for the way homosexuals couples have to put up with ignorance and name calling. You add to the problem you don't help them.

So by attacking homophobia and people who want to discriminate against homosexual people, I myself am responsible for the suffering inflicted by homophobia.

Are you sure you are feeling well today? Did you think about that before you typed it?

The best thing you can do is shut up on the subject.

I think you are the last person that I will take any advice from thank you.

Everyone knows that there is no vile homophobic views held by the Christians at all on this site. Just your false accusations and using such as a rod to beat the Christians. You have proved my point. Because only YOU believe any vile homophobic views actually exist.

Tell us ALL those vile homophobic views here posted by Christians and explain point by point with post reference what is vile about them. You can't they don't exist only in your mind. Who really is the bigot here?

Well you have a different meaning of the word vile to me. When Hope describes homosexual people as "damaged" and having a "medical condition" I think that is a pretty vile thing to say about someone based just on their sexuality.

As I said:  this post adds to my evidence of what you truly are... And there is no apology required only on your part to Christians here and the homosexuals who post here.

Just asking.

No an apology is needed. You lied about me in saying that I have discriminated against Christians.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

 You have proved my point. Because only YOU believe any vile homophobic views actually exist.

Nope you are COMPLETELY WRONG.

Here is the evidence.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=11884.0


So now, I need an admission that you were wrong AND an apology for lying about me.

[floo]

Nope you are COMPLETELY WRONG.

Here is the evidence.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=11884.0


So now, I need an admission that you were wrong AND an apology for lying about me.

The oceans will run dry before you get that!

[Aruntraveller]

There has been considerable talk on here around the issues of STI's.

Just a few thoughts of my own. Gay men are without a doubt more promiscuous than the general population, one of the effects of that is a higher rate of sti's for men who have sex with men..

Some of the reasons for this seem obvious to me. Firstly historically it was difficult for gay men to form stable relationships because of the legal situation.....this often led to series of brief encounters. That has carried over in some gay peoples attitudes. Secondly the nature of male sexuality which makes a quick hook up easy. Soon aroused soon gone. I really think a lot of heterosexual women would be amazed at the number of straight men who play around with other men. All to do with the nature of male sexuality.

But here is an interesting thing, and i apply all sorts of caveats to this but studies coming out of the USA show a drop in promiscuity amongst married gay men. Now i say caveats because this is a new development so lets not get too carried away. But wouldnt it be ironic if the thing some Christians and others fought so hard against proved to be the very thing that helps to promote faithful long lasting relationships.

Lastly to some on here. You do concentrate on the mechanics too much. In my experience love is equally important to gay people as to the rest of the population.

I know so many loving gay couples that have ben together for decades and also been faithful that again i think many of you would be shocked. Pleasantly.

[Nearly Sane]

As pretty well all of the time, I agree with trent but I would add that people get very hung up on both a particular sex act (which is not exclusive to homosexuals) and on male homosexuality.

[Owlswing]

Paedophiles want the same right to have sex with children as adults do with each other... are we demeaning them by saying they are wrong and it is a sin?
Don't be so bloody stupid and arrogant. I have to say you and floo and people like you are responsible for the way homosexuals couples have to put up with ignorance and name calling. You add to the problem you don't help them.
The best thing you can do is shut up on the subject.




See ignorance even towards your own damning behaviour. If you let things be they would not have such a hard time.
Your opinions are as bad as your refuting the truth. Everyone knows that there is no vile homophobic views held by the Christians at all on this site. Just your false accusations and using such as a rod to beat the Christians. You have proved my point. Because only YOU believe any vile homophobic views actually exist.

Tell us ALL those vile homophobic views here posted by Christians and explain point by point with post reference what is vile about them. You can't they don't exist only in your mind. Who really is the bigot here?





As I said:  this post adds to my evidence of what you truly are... And there is no apology required only on your part to Christians here and the homosexuals who post here.

Just asking.

Jesus Christ!

And you have the balls to accuse me of ranting - mote beam eye!

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

There has been considerable talk on here around the issues of STI's.

Just a few thoughts of my own. Gay men are without a doubt more promiscuous than the general population, one of the effects of that is a higher rate of sti's for men who have sex with men..

Some of the reasons for this seem obvious to me. Firstly historically it was difficult for gay men to form stable relationships because of the legal situation.....this often led to series of brief encounters. That has carried over in some gay peoples attitudes. Secondly the nature of male sexuality which makes a quick hook up easy. Soon aroused soon gone. I really think a lot of heterosexual women would be amazed at the number of straight men who play around with other men. All to do with the nature of male sexuality.

I personally don't think it's that surprising - it's been well documented in various articles - men who self-identify as straight but have sex with men. Hence STD clinics don't make their rules based on whatever sexuality a person identifies with but focuses only on the mechanics of the sex that potential blood donors have had, and the clinics decide their policies based on the science and the statistical risk associated with those mechanics.

Also, there are many reported instances of men having sex with other men in prison but they do not self-identify as gay. Sex occurs between males in some species in the animal kingdom and I am not aware of any evidence that animals have any concept of sexual identity.

But here is an interesting thing, and i apply all sorts of caveats to this but studies coming out of the USA show a drop in promiscuity amongst married gay men. Now i say caveats because this is a new development so lets not get too carried away. But wouldnt it be ironic if the thing some Christians and others fought so hard against proved to be the very thing that helps to promote faithful long lasting relationships.

Lastly to some on here. You do concentrate on the mechanics too much. In my experience love is equally important to gay people as to the rest of the population.

I know so many loving gay couples that have ben together for decades and also been faithful that again i think many of you would be shocked. Pleasantly.

The science and the mechanics are relevant to the discussion, as ithey show that the sexuality of a person or their emotions are not the cause of harm in society - just the mechanics of the sex they have, and how often they have it.

It's perfectly understandable to create some special narrative around the chemicals in the body and the evolutionary instincts that lead to attraction and sexual desire - and I don't doubt that this narrative is true for every person who creates it - but love is subjective. It's fairly common on this forum to focus on objective facts in discussions - many theists and atheists are hung up on the science - so I would think that facts are important in a discussion such as this one about why certain sexual acts were discouraged more than others in societies affected by STDs.

[Sassy]

Do Floo and Stephen Taylor know each other off the forum?

[floo]

Do Floo and Stephen Taylor know each other off the forum?

No

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Do Floo and Stephen Taylor know each other off the forum?

No, why do you ask?

Anyway how is the admission that you were wrong about me being the only one who has seen vile homophobic views, and the apology for lying about me coming on?