Jesus died, not such a big deal!

[floo]

deleted

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Some Christians sing the praises of Jesus as he supposedly died to 'save' us. But even if that was true, what was the big deal? Other people have died when saving others and stayed dead, not having the supposed privilege of popping up alive three days later. Therefore people who deliberately put themselves in harm's way to save others, knowing they will probably be killed in the attempt, are more worthy of praise than Jesus, who knew he wasn't going to stay dead for long, if the Bible stories had any credence .

Easter Monday.......provocative thread title........you have our attention Floo.

The Floo modification (distortion)is that according to her Jesus never said to God 'why have you forsaken me'. The hole of Floo's argument depends on that edit.

[floo]

Easter Monday.......provocative thread title........you have our attention Floo.

The Floo modification (distortion)is that according to her Jesus never said to God 'why have you forsaken me'. The hole of Floo's argument depends on that edit.

Excuse me, where did I say that? You are mistaking me with someone else!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Excuse me, where did I say that? You are mistaking me with someone else!

You peddle a distorted view of what the content of the Gospels are.
You can come up with a general conclusion but please don't make up a new narrative to fit that conclusion.

Rolling your own Gospel seems popular among antitheists and then they have the audacity to guff on about different viewpoints............. Most untrustworthy.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Vlad,

Why? it's Floo, just tell me you were bored, I will accept that explanation and anyway I am much more interested about why Floo bleached her hard drive

Oh! and you will be pleased to know I stepped into Waterstones yesterday in search of a book on evolution, I departed with Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth" the devil made me do it, he came in the shape of an atheist Waterstone assistant, so far I have learned that the good Prof likes dogs

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dear Vlad,

Why? it's Floo, just tell me you were bored, I will accept that explanation and anyway I am much more interested about why Floo bleached her hard drive

Oh! and you will be pleased to know I stepped into Waterstones yesterday in search of a book on evolution, I departed with Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth" the devil made me do it, he came in the shape of an atheist Waterstone assistant, so far I have learned that the good Prof likes dogs

Gonnagle.

Meant to pay a visit to Kidneystones bookstore myself but got diverted into HMV. The forces of Darkness obviously seeped through the walls of Gallstones which is next door and I came away with a 3 for £20 deal on Blu rays.

Atheist Waterstones assistant?............I think we'll take that as read.
Dawkins? Are you having trouble sleeping?

[Shaker]

Oh! and you will be pleased to know I stepped into Waterstones yesterday in search of a book on evolution, I departed with Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth" the devil made me do it, he came in the shape of an atheist Waterstone assistant, so far I have learned that the good Prof likes dogs

Nice one Gonners - it's one of the best ones around. Hope you enjoy it.

[jeremyp]

What is "a big deal" is entirely subjective. For me, it was a big deal when my grandmother died but I doubt if anybody else on this forum knew her or cared.

The death of Jesus is a big deal to Christians because they have chosen to make it so. You can argue that many people have made bigger sacrifices, but you can't argue that something Christians tell us is important to them is not important to them.

[Rhiannon]

Yes, the death of Jesus is a big deal whether we like it or not, even whether it really happened or not. Given how it's shaped history - or rather what people have believed what it means has - it's bern a big deal for many people for the past two thousand years whether or not they were Christisn; it's only recently that's begun to change.

[floo]

You peddle a distorted view of what the content of the Gospels are.
You can come up with a general conclusion but please don't make up a new narrative to fit that conclusion.

Rolling your own Gospel seems popular among antitheists and then they have the audacity to guff on about different viewpoints............. Most untrustworthy.

Your view isn't distorted of course!

The Floo modification (distortion)is that according to her Jesus never said to God 'why have you forsaken me'.

I am still awaiting an apology as it was NOT me who made that statement.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Your view isn't distorted of course!

The Floo modification (distortion)is that according to her Jesus never said to God 'why have you forsaken me'.

I am still awaiting an apology as it was NOT me who made that statement.

I apologise.
Jesus  knew he had the privilege of being raised later of course but ceased to believe this on the cross. I didn't know why you didn't include that in your OP.

[Enki]

Christians actually believe that Jesus died in order to save us. Whatever I may think about it is of no consequence. For them, Easter is a special time, I accept and respect that. Obviously it has no religious meaning for me at all, but, as long as they don't make it an excuse  to involve me in any way, they are very welcome to pursue their own thoughts and rituals in this matter.

[floo]

Christians actually believe that Jesus died in order to save us. Whatever I may think about it is of no consequence. For them, Easter is a special time, I accept and respect that. Obviously it has no religious meaning for me at all, but, as long as they don't make it an excuse  to involve me in any way, they are very welcome to pursue their own thoughts and rituals in this matter.

Of course they are, always providing the more extreme ones don't try to shove it down the throats of non believers with threats if they don't get 'saved'.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Oh! and you will be pleased to know I stepped into Waterstones yesterday in search of a book on evolution, I departed with Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth"

Peculiar title....never associated Dawkins with the Circus. Nobody, because of it's nature can enjoy evolution as a show except as a mental construct. I think it ironic that the only person who could possibly enjoy the whole thing as a show is God.

Still it wouldn't be a Dawkins without a dodgy title.

[Shaker]

Peculiar title....never associated Dawkins with the Circus. Nobody, because of it's nature can enjoy evolution as a show except as a mental construct.

The world is to say the least rather full of living things every single one of which has been shaped and brought to its current form by evolution, Vlad.

Sounds like you need the book more than Gonners.

[Hope]

Some Christians sing the praises of Jesus as he supposedly died to 'save' us. But even if that was true, what was the big deal? Other people have died when saving others and stayed dead, not having the supposed privilege of popping up alive three days later. Therefore people who deliberately put themselves in harm's way to save others, knowing they will probably be killed in the attempt, are more worthy of praise than Jesus, who knew he wasn't going to stay dead for long, if the Bible stories had any credence .

Since when did any of the others you refer to provide salvation for the whole of humanity, Floo?

[floo]

Since when did any of the others you refer to provide salvation for the whole of humanity, Floo?

There is no evidence we need salvation.

[Hope]

... it's only recently that's begun to change.

I'd disagree, Rhi.  For all the legislation that existed in Western Europe and elsewhere over the centuries requiring people to attend church, there is no evidence that church attendance equated (or equates) with belief in Christ.  I'd go as far as to suggest that it hasn't been that big deal for many people for the past two thousand years: as long as they attended church (which coud be a useful social process), they could believe what they wanted to - and perhaps didn't even bother attending church regularly.

[Hope]

There is no evidence we need salvation.

That is your opinion.  I'd suggest that the horrors that we hear about on a daily basis suggest that humanity does need salvation. 

[floo]

That is your opinion.  I'd suggest that the horrors that we hear about on a daily basis suggest that humanity does need salvation.

And that is your opinion!

[ippy]

Dear Vlad,

Why? it's Floo, just tell me you were bored, I will accept that explanation and anyway I am much more interested about why Floo bleached her hard drive

Oh! and you will be pleased to know I stepped into Waterstones yesterday in search of a book on evolution, I departed with Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth" the devil made me do it, he came in the shape of an atheist Waterstone assistant, so far I have learned that the good Prof likes dogs

Gonnagle.

Watch out Gonners Hitler liked dogs too.

ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There is no evidence we need salvation.

That assumes two things
1)knowledge of moral perfection
2) Ability to flawlessly achieve it. I've never seen it and I doubt you have.
and if you ''have'' i'm reminded of Socrates remark that if humanity ever came across a person who was morally perfect that person would be killed.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The world is to say the least rather full of living things every single one of which has been shaped and brought to its current form by evolution

Yep.........So what?

[Hope]

And that is your opinion!

OK.  Perhaps you can explain the underlying principles upon which you clearly abhor cerrtain actions carried out by many humans, yet believe that humanity doesn't need salvation.

[floo]

OK.  Perhaps you can explain the underlying principles upon which you clearly abhor cerrtain actions carried out by many humans, yet believe that humanity doesn't need salvation.

Humans don't need saving by any deity, we are the authors of our own destiny and must concentrate on putting right what is wrong with the world.