'Sin'

[floo]

deleted

[Hope]

Which are unreasonable, Floo?  and can you explain why you believe that they are.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity

God dodging could come over as disbelief.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The word 'sin' is a little word, which seems not only to apply to wrongdoing on which all decent people would agree, but also to things which no decent person would consider wrong, like disbelief in the Biblical deity, homosexuality, sex before marriage in a consenting adult relationship, masturbation

Antipathy towards masturbation is very common and that means of course among the non religious majority.

[floo]

Which are unreasonable, Floo?  and can you explain why you believe that they are.

1.You shall have no other gods before Me.
As there is no evidence it exists that is totally unreasonable.

2.You shall not make idols.
Why not?

3.You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Why not, as again there is no evidence it exists.

4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I am a non believer

5.Honor your father and your mother.
I would only give them respect if they deserved it.

6.You shall not murder.
7.You shall not commit adultery.
8.You shall not steal.
9.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
10.You shall not covet.


Commandments 6/10 are valid.

[Hope]

1.You shall have no other gods before Me.
As there is no evidence it exists that is totally unreasonable.

2.You shall not make idols.
Why not?

3.You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Why not, as again there is no evidence it exists.

4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I am a non believer

5.Honor your father and your mother.
I would only give them respect if they deserved it.

OK, Floo, you argue on the basis that you don't believe in this God.  It should be remembered that the Commandments were given to a people who did believe in his existence, and had good reason to do so - their experiences of him.

So, your argument is somewhat moot, and since it is your opinion, I'm not really sure that there is any need to argue against that, since you have provided us with no evidence for your opinion whereas others have, over the years, provided evidence for their opinion that he does exist.

However, I'd also suggest that since these commandments were and remain the bedrock of Jewish social cohesion, the latter 5 are dependent upon the validity of the first 5.  If the first 5 don't stand up, why should the second 5?

[/b]6.You shall not murder.
7.You shall not commit adultery.
8.You shall not steal.
9.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
10.You shall not covet.


Commandments 6/10 are valid.

On what basis do you suggest that these are valid?

[floo]

OK, Floo, you argue on the basis that you don't believe in this God.  It should be remembered that the Commandments were given to a people who did believe in his existence, and had good reason to do so - their experiences of him.

So, your argument is somewhat moot, and since it is your opinion, I'm not really sure that there is any need to argue against that, since you have provided us with no evidence for your opinion whereas others have, over the years, provided evidence for their opinion that he does exist.

However, I'd also suggest that since these commandments were and remain the bedrock of Jewish social cohesion, the latter 5 are dependent upon the validity of the first 5.  If the first 5 don't stand up, why should the second 5?
On what basis do you suggest that these are valid?

Well do you think stealing, murdering, lying and being jealous is good? I don't!

[Gordon]

whereas others have, over the years, provided evidence for their opinion that he does exist.

Such as?

[floo]

The 'evidence', such as it is, they provide, is not verifiable, like 'because it is in the Bible it must be true' .

[ekim]

1.You shall have no other gods before Me.
As there is no evidence it exists that is totally unreasonable.

2.You shall not make idols.
Why not?

3.You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Why not, as again there is no evidence it exists.

4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I am a non believer

5.Honor your father and your mother.
I would only give them respect if they deserved it.

6.You shall not murder.
7.You shall not commit adultery.
8.You shall not steal.
9.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
10.You shall not covet.


Commandments 6/10 are valid.

Another way of looking at sin might be as follows:
There is only one sin .... hamartia ..... to miss the mark, the mark being God,( or perhaps from Jesus' perspective the Will of God) but there are many ways of creating deviation.  The first 4 Commandments are about this relationship.
1. No other Gods otherwise your attention strays from the one God.
2. No images as these are likely to be man made and distracting.
3. Don't use the name of God pointlessly as the 'mark' is single pointed
4. Keep the Sabbath free from distractions and dedicate it to whole heartedly communing with God.  Half heartedness will lead to loss of direction.
The last 6 Commandments are about relationship with others so that social conflict doesn't create distractions.
If you are not a believer in the God then you are not a sinner (except perhaps in the eyes of the believer) but you might be a deviant from the moral code of the society in which you live and have to suffer the consequences.

[Owlswing]

5. Honor your father and your mother.
I would only give them respect if they deserved it.

Why the American spelling, Floo? Which bible/website did you copy this from?

[floo]

Why the American spelling, Floo? Which bible/website did you copy this from?

I went into Google and copied the short version of the commandments, I am sorry about the American misspelling!

[Owlswing]

I went into Google and copied the short version of the commandments, I am sorry about the American misspelling!

You have no reason to be sorry! You used what you were offered.

[ippy]

1.You shall have no other gods before Me.
As there is no evidence it exists that is totally unreasonable.

2.You shall not make idols.
Why not?

3.You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Why not, as again there is no evidence it exists.

4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I am a non believer

5.Honor your father and your mother.
I would only give them respect if they deserved it.

6.You shall not murder.
7.You shall not commit adultery.
8.You shall not steal.
9.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
10.You shall not covet.


Commandments 6/10 are valid.

You live in Wales Floo doesn't it say something about Sheep and goats as well, when I lived in London it wasn't that long before any new Taffy was asked, "has your Dad got a beard"?

I know that's very unkind, but hell and all funny, well I thought so.

ippy

[floo]

You live in Wales Floo doesn't it say something about Sheep and goats as well, when I lived in London it wasn't that long before any new Taffy was asked, "has your Dad got a beard"?

I know that's very unkind, but hell and all funny, well I thought so.

ippy

Sorry what on earth has Wales got to do with this thread?

[ippy]

Sorry what on earth has Wales got to do with this thread?

Sheep, Goats, Sin, lots of sheep, goats in Wales, yes/no.

Wakey wakey Floo, sometimes it can help to lighten the tone, if we're not quite so serious about everything for all of the time.

It's called a gentle leg pull, not a belly laugh, it looses something when it has to be explained, never mind.

ippy

[floo]

Sheep, Goats, Sin, lots of sheep, goats in Wales, yes/no.

Wakey wakey Floo, sometimes it can help to lighten the tone, if we're not quite so serious about everything for all of the time.

It's called a gentle leg pull, not a belly laugh, it looses something when it has to be explained, never mind.

ippy

There are plenty of sheep in Wales as elsewhere, you rarely see goats though.

[Brownie]

Well that must mean that Wales is predominantly saved, floo!  So no worries, forget about sin.

[ippy]

Well that must mean that Wales is predominantly saved, floo!  So no worries, forget about sin.

Blimey, it's hard work sometimes.

ippy

[Owlswing]

Well that must mean that Wales is predominantly saved, floo!  So no worries, forget about sin.

The only sin about Wales these days is that the only decent things to come out of it are the M4 and Male Voice Choirs!

[Brownie]

Tom Jones

I am cooking Welsh lamb right now, fed on grass.
Stoned lamb - mmmmmmmmmmmm

[Owlswing]

Tom Jones

I am cooking Welsh lamb right now, fed on grass.
Stoned lamb - mmmmmmmmmmmm

At the very least it died euphoric!

[Brownie]

It was very tasty.

(This is for floo who didn't seem to understand the reference to sheep and goats:

Matthew 25:31-46 (NIV)

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.)

[floo]

It was very tasty.

(This is for floo who didn't seem to understand the reference to sheep and goats:

Matthew 25:31-46 (NIV)

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.)

Of course I understood the reference! I have no wish to be a sheep, who are so easily lead, goats do their own thing, as I do! (we used to own goats)

[john]

I got into serious trouble once talking about Wales;

I was in a pub and said that only two good things come out of Cardiff, rugby players and prostitutes.

This big mean looking bloke came up to me and said, my wife's from Cardiff.

Quick as a flash I replied, what position does she play.

I'll leave a space                                 for Hopey to tell us he heard it 30 years ago.