Author Topic: Are there any scientists who are pagan?  (Read 3148 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« on: March 31, 2016, 09:36:16 AM »
Are there any scientists who are pagan?
At present atheists find pagans acceptable because they are naturalistic but I wonder how pagan naturalism conflicts with atheistic naturalism when it comes to the techniques and profession of science as opposed to pagan techniques.
I would imagine the area of pharmacology and medicine might come into conflict with potions and spells.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 09:39:18 AM by Jonique Anoo »

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 09:39:39 AM »
What makes you assume pagans generally use potions and spells? Especially for medical matters. We tend to use medicine.

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2016, 09:42:20 AM »
What makes you assume pagans generally use potions and spells? Especially for medical matters. We tend to use medicine.
yeah......whose?

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2016, 09:57:31 AM »
The NHS mostly, unless we can afford BUPA.

I do buy my paracetamol and nurofen in Tesco. I'm not aware that they put spells on them first though.

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2016, 09:59:58 AM »
The NHS mostly, unless we can afford BUPA.

I do buy my paracetamol and nurofen in Tesco. I'm not aware that they put spells on them first though.
That's nice.

Do you know any scientists who are pagan?

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2016, 10:02:31 AM »
Are there any scientists who are pagan?
Is there any relevance to such a question?  After all, there are world-famous scientists who are atheist and religious, and they often work together and develop amazing treatments and discoveries.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 10:07:25 AM »
Is there any relevance to such a question?  After all, there are world-famous scientists who are atheist and religious, and they often work together and develop amazing treatments and discoveries.
Of course........I am going through the gamut of antitheist humbug at the moment and at the moment it's Christians being any more anti science than antitheisms current allies, the pagans. I move that there are great differences between pagans and antitheist scientists which are being overlooked in their mutual antichristianity.

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2016, 10:08:32 AM »
Well you're certainly having some kind of movement, Vlad.

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2016, 10:11:14 AM »
Well you're certainly having some kind of movement, Vlad.
Don't worry I shan't be seeking anything pagan for my IBS.

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2016, 10:11:19 AM »
Of course........I am going through the gamut of antitheist humbug at the moment and at the moment it's Christians being any more anti science than antitheisms current allies, the pagans. I move that there are great differences between pagans and antitheist scientists which are being overlooked in their mutual antichristianity.
You can move that suggestion, but I'm afriad that I have never seen any evidence for it in the real world (obviously, this place isa not the real world and is - if anything - more of a debating 'tropical hot house'.)
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2016, 10:15:57 AM »
Don't worry I shan't be seeking anything pagan for my IBS.

No, go and pray about it instead.


Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11073
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2016, 10:21:17 AM »
I may be missing something here - but does it matter whether a scientist is Pagan, Christian, atheist, antitheist, materialistic dipsticks, or any of the other sub categories favoured by some on here.

If they are working to the appropriate agreed scientific standards, guidelines etc. it surely doesn't matter.

Or am I just being hopelessly simplistic?
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2016, 10:29:30 AM »
I may be missing something here - but does it matter whether a scientist is Pagan, Christian, atheist, antitheist, materialistic dipsticks, or any of the other sub categories favoured by some on here.

If they are working to the appropriate agreed scientific standards, guidelines etc. it surely doesn't matter.

Or am I just being hopelessly simplistic?

I think it possible that a scientist who is also strongly religious can let his beliefs filter into his work sometimes.

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2016, 10:31:31 AM »
I may be missing something here - but does it matter whether a scientist is Pagan, Christian, atheist, antitheist, materialistic dipsticks, or any of the other sub categories favoured by some on here.

Apparently....to some antitheists it does.
Ask Shaker for instance if a Christian can be a proper scientist...unless he becomes an atheist/philosophical naturalist while he does science.

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11073
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 10:34:39 AM »
I think it possible that a scientist who is also strongly religious can let his beliefs filter into his work sometimes.

I don't see how if they are following scientific procedures, techniques, etc.?
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11073
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 10:36:04 AM »
Apparently....to some antitheists it does.
Ask Shaker for instance if a Christian can be a proper scientist...unless he becomes an atheist/philosophical naturalist while he does science.

Well I'm sure Shaker will speak for himself. I still can't see the difference it would make if scientific principles are followed.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6945
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2016, 10:36:43 AM »

Are there any scientists who are pagan?


Why are you asking the denizens of this forum? Do you honestly think that any of us know of any scientists who are pagan? There is only one person who seems to know at least one person, and usually more, in any and every conceivable walk of life who might offer an answer, but other than that I would suggest you ask your question to scientists themselves.

Quote

At present atheists find pagans acceptable because they are naturalistic but I wonder how pagan naturalism conflicts with atheistic naturalism when it comes to the techniques and profession of science as opposed to pagan techniques.
I would imagine the area of pharmacology and medicine might come into conflict with potions and spells.


This depends upon your definition of a 'potion'. If you are referring to the use of traditional natural medicines from herbs etc there is rarely any kind of conflict as pagan healers, at least those I know personally, and they are hardly more than five or six, will always restrict themselves to well-known remedies and these only after all modern pharmaceuticals have proved ineffective.

If you mean something taught by Professor Snape to Harry and his mates, no, witches do not use that sort of potion. well, no witch that I know does.

Most spells cast in matters medical are for the relief of pain and stress. Regretably the bible does not give the wording of the spells that Jesus used to make the lame walk and the blind see, except one, which involved spitting onto the ground making a paste of the dust and the spit, spreading this paste over the eyes of a blind man, sending him to a lake to wash the mud off thus making him see again. Another case of the bible being bloody useless when it could have been helpful.

And yes, as far as I, as a pagan, am concerned, there is not one iota of difference between the miracles of Christ and the spells of a witch. Both achieve a change in the physical world by the power of the will of the caster with the aquiescence or assistance of a deity. 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 10:50:13 AM »
I don't see how if they are following scientific procedures, techniques, etc.?

No, I was referring to his reporting of the results of the procedures ... as in the scientists who are studying NDEs, and things like that.

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 11:10:59 AM »
No, I was referring to his reporting of the results of the procedures ... as in the scientists who are studying NDEs, and things like that.
So not the actual science then?

I'm actually worried about the presence of antitheists in science.
Already Dawkins and others have reinforced your error that science equals atheism and of course Dawkins advocates universal darwinism, antiessentialism and Sean Carroll advocates removing falsification which then removes barriers to scientific acceptance of multiverse on the strength of string theory being recognised on elegance.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 07:05:08 PM »
Is there any relevance to such a question?  After all, there are world-famous scientists who are atheist and religious, and they often work together and develop amazing treatments and discoveries.

Yes it's surprising how well the pagan and religious believers can still do their good scientific works in spite of their debilitating handicaps.

ippy

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2016, 07:48:03 PM »
Yes it's surprising how well the pagan and religious believers can still do their good scientific works in spite of their debilitating handicaps.
Perhaps it is their 'dehabilitating handicaps' - as you call them - that empower their good scientific work, ippy.  That would certainly seem to be the case amongst many religious people who do a variety of work from care work to financial management, 'science' to social work, etc.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Bubbles

  • Guest
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2016, 02:51:02 AM »
Are there any scientists who are pagan?
At present atheists find pagans acceptable because they are naturalistic but I wonder how pagan naturalism conflicts with atheistic naturalism when it comes to the techniques and profession of science as opposed to pagan techniques.
I would imagine the area of pharmacology and medicine might come into conflict with potions and spells.

There is a really interesting blog below from a pagan called Allison Ehrman who describes herself as

Quote

 “I’m a Unitarian Universalist neo-pagan scientific pantheist humanist who practices Buddhist insight meditation (Vipassana)"




http://www.patheos.com/blogs/naturespath/2015/04/the-scientific-pagan/

It doesn't sound like an issue tbh.

The conclusion of the blog

Quote

In the end, I don’t feel any kind of disconnect between my love of science and my love of and reverence for nature. And maybe someday I’ll drop all the labels I’ve given to myself and just consider my spiritual beliefs to be what they are. In the meantime, I find them helpful in mapping out just what it is I do and do not believe, and that’s an excellent way to continue propelling myself down my own path.


 :)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 02:55:26 AM by Rose »

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17582
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2016, 09:28:04 AM »
There has been discussion of the links between being a scientist and religiosity on a couple of threads, including this one.

The discussions tend to adopt two extremes. Either a view that somehow scientists are all atheists and the two are synonymous. Or that scientist simply reflect the rest of the population in terms of the religiosity. Neither is correct.

Of course there are religious scientists, but it is also true that scientist are much more likely to be atheist, and much less likely to be religious than the general population. There have been a range of studies to demonstrate this and I'll link to one that is pretty representative:

http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/

So this is from the USA (a much more religious place than the UK) - from the general population 83% of people said they believed in god; amongst scientists that was just 33%. Just 4% of the general population said they believed neither in god nor a universal spirit/higher power. Ten times as many scientists (41%) believed in neither. 75% of the general population said they were Christian, but just 30% of scientist said they were Christian.

Just some evidence to help shape the discussion.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2016, 11:49:12 AM »
Perhaps it is their 'dehabilitating handicaps' - as you call them - that empower their good scientific work, ippy.  That would certainly seem to be the case amongst many religious people who do a variety of work from care work to financial management, 'science' to social work, etc.

I did and do recognise the good works of these religious believers you're referring to Hope, but find it difficult to see how stubbornly hanging on to some ages old primitive beliefs can be of any help and surly be more of a handicap, splitting their brains between their scientific pursuits and well, do I really need to say?

ippy

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11106
Re: Are there any scientists who are pagan?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 11:53:45 AM »
Dear Vlad,

Of course there are scientists who are also Pagans, here is three them at work.

http://tinyurl.com/hmvndtm

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.