Author Topic: Agnotology  (Read 7458 times)

Udayana

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2016, 04:21:00 PM »
What is your reasoning there. Why is that more acceptable today?
What's happened in the past is done, no point worrying about it. It is today that it would be unacceptable.

We have education and supporting resources available worldwide. Access to information, knowledge and research should be transparently and freely available. People will not accept being treated as an illiterate peasantry.


Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2016, 08:26:16 PM »

It is interesting that Jesus has actually said that... and in spite of that even today, most Christians take the bible literally and do not attempt to understand the secret teachings and the inner development that is the crux of spirituality.

Similarly with Islam.
There existed a kind of Anglicanism as typified by CF Alexander perpetrator of that horror ''All things bright and beautiful' which typifies the social determinism and hierarchy involved of Hinduism.
Those verses have been rightly dropped from use in the church as I would hazard they are incompatible with the social mission of the church.
Given that, I would want from you exactly is to summarise what these secret teachings are? And if you are unable to because they are secret....how you come by knowledge of them
What the inner development is and what the crux of spirituality is. 


« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 08:33:41 PM by Jonique Anoo »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2016, 08:32:42 PM »
What's happened in the past is done, no point worrying about it. It is today that it would be unacceptable.

We have education and supporting resources available worldwide. Access to information, knowledge and research should be transparently and freely available. People will not accept being treated as an illiterate peasantry.
But can we make any progress if the New atheists commend ignorance in the very matter they are making money from the eager?
I can recommend ''In our time'' from the BBC. In which the essentials of Christianity are discussed and Bibledex on youtube by the theology dept of the University of Nottingham.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 08:35:01 PM by Jonique Anoo »

Shaker

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2016, 10:04:04 PM »
But can we make any progress if the New atheists commend ignorance in the very matter they are making money from the eager?
That's very nearly English.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2016, 11:53:17 PM »
That's P very nearly Engl ish.
FIFY.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2016, 11:58:16 PM »
That's very nearly English.
Note to self. Use clearer English when dealing with possible farquytts.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2016, 12:28:19 AM »
Note to self. Use clearer English when dealing with possible farquytts.
Note to everyone else.
Old Chyttfurbraynes has access to a pc again.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2016, 04:51:07 PM »
Note to everyone else.
Old Chyttfurbraynes has access to a pc again.
Thanks for that Seb-arse-tian......(winking smiley)

Jack Knave

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2016, 06:35:40 PM »


Yes....I agree that symbols lose their meaning as people lose their need for the symbols. But it does not happen enmasse for the society as a whole. Certain individuals may lose their need for the symbol and move on to other means of spiritual growth. But that does not mean there will be no others needing the same symbol. The symbols continue to hold meaning to someone or the other.
These individuals are usually referred to as being prophets or wise men and are a harbinger of things to come. And symbols do die for all at some point, they can't last forever.



Jack Knave

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2016, 06:44:05 PM »
I think I'd agree most of the above posts; human brains run on iconography in a sense, we run on concepts more than reality; why, because faithfulness to reality would be massively expensive, and also pointless from the point of view of evolutionary biology.  The way we perceive the world has been honed to a state of maximum utility at minimum cost in the cause of keeping us alive and reproducing.  Theoretical computer modelling demonstrates that species that perceive reality 'as is' invariably go extinct - they lose out to competitors that can survive at lower costs through clever use of inner symbology and conceptualisation.
I don't understand that, can you explain why seeing and taking the world 'as is' should require more energy than relating to it in a symbolic way?

torridon

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2016, 10:39:13 PM »
I don't understand that, can you explain why seeing and taking the world 'as is' should require more energy than relating to it in a symbolic way?

The volume of information captured by our senses is vast; consider by analogy the computer memory and processing power needed to process high definition live streamed multimedia.  Brains have at their disposal vast incoming streams of multimedia data captured through eyes and ears and nose and skin etc.  Yet they use only a tiny fraction of that data in the construction of conscious experience.  Our sense of vision for instance, is mostly a product of inner interaction between visual cortex and the thalamus, which is 'seeded' by novel sensory data on the optic nerve.  The brain stores simplified models of what thing look like, textures, colours, shapes, and a trickle of central optical data coming from the eyes is used to generate our inner sense of vision, and most of peripheral vision is constructed through extrapolation. 

Brains need to do what they do at minimum cost.  A human brain constitutes 2% of the human total body mass but its calorific consumption is around 30% of the body total.  Brains come at a very high metabolic cost so they have evolved minimal cost ways of doing things thus in the case of perception, our experience of reality is not reality at all, but a minimum cost iconographic virtual reality representation.  If we could ever see reality as it actually is, we probably would not recognise it at all.

ekim

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2016, 11:10:03 AM »
Off topic, I know, but I wonder what the effect of the constant use of virtual reality goggles will have on the brain.  I remember a scientist who created a pair of spectacles which reversed all images.  Left was right, right was left, up was down and down was up.  After some time his brain readjusted and he was able to function normally but when he tried to return to normal vision he had a hell of a time adjusting.

torridon

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2016, 11:19:56 AM »
Yes that's right.  Given the pinhole camera set up of eyes, the image falling on the retina naturally is upside down but nonetheless our brains automatically correct for that.

ekim

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Re: Agnotology
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2016, 11:29:25 AM »
Yes that's right.  Given the pinhole camera set up of eyes, the image falling on the retina naturally is upside down but nonetheless our brains automatically correct for that.
...and two dimensional, I believe.