Author Topic: Appeal to lurkers  (Read 12394 times)

horsethorn

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #100 on: April 06, 2016, 10:39:42 AM »
That is the problem.. whether universal or not - pagan beliefs hold NO TRUTH. There is no evidence required to back anything up because the beliefs have no merit, purpose or value to mankind.

Pagan beliefs are exactly as true as your beliefs. They have the same merit, purpose, and value - and also precisely the same evidence.

ht
Darth Horsethorn, Most Patient Saint®, Senior Wrangler®, Knight Inerrant® and Gonnagle of the Reformed Church of the Debatable Saints®
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"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

floo

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #101 on: April 06, 2016, 10:52:54 AM »
Pagan beliefs are exactly as true as your beliefs. They have the same merit, purpose, and value - and also precisely the same evidence.

ht

I can see Sass taking that on board, NOT!

horsethorn

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #102 on: April 06, 2016, 11:47:59 AM »
I can see Sass taking that on board, NOT!

The problem for her is that I can demonstrate that I'm correct...

ht
Darth Horsethorn, Most Patient Saint®, Senior Wrangler®, Knight Inerrant® and Gonnagle of the Reformed Church of the Debatable Saints®
Steampunk Panentheist
Not an atheist
"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

floo

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #103 on: April 06, 2016, 11:54:26 AM »
The problem for her is that I can demonstrate that I'm correct...

ht

My dear, you can demonstrate it until you are blue in the face, but it will still fall on blind eyes and deaf ears.

horsethorn

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #104 on: April 06, 2016, 11:58:31 AM »
My dear, you can demonstrate it until you are blue in the face, but it will still fall on blind eyes and deaf ears.

You're not wrong :(

ht
Darth Horsethorn, Most Patient Saint®, Senior Wrangler®, Knight Inerrant® and Gonnagle of the Reformed Church of the Debatable Saints®
Steampunk Panentheist
Not an atheist
"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

Gonnagle

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #105 on: April 06, 2016, 12:02:41 PM »
<doh>

<gift>

<devil>

(gift)

{{{}}} <hug>
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

horsethorn

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #106 on: April 06, 2016, 12:03:11 PM »
<doh>

<gift>

<devil>

(gift)

{{{}}} <hug>

Pardon?

ht
Darth Horsethorn, Most Patient Saint®, Senior Wrangler®, Knight Inerrant® and Gonnagle of the Reformed Church of the Debatable Saints®
Steampunk Panentheist
Not an atheist
"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

floo

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #107 on: April 06, 2016, 12:14:29 PM »
Pardon?

ht

The poor darling couldn't find any water to put with his wee DRAM ;D

Gonnagle

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #108 on: April 06, 2016, 12:32:18 PM »
Dear Floo and Horsethorn,

Especially you Floo ;) I was bored, if you look below Horsethorns little avatar you will see a small picture of the world, click on it. :o

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

floo

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #109 on: April 06, 2016, 12:35:32 PM »
Dear Floo and Horsethorn,

Especially you Floo ;) I was bored, if you look below Horsethorns little avatar you will see a small picture of the world, click on it. :o

Gonnagle.

You must have been bored you poor old thing. ;D

Sassy

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2016, 10:34:16 AM »
It's to highlight the wretchedly flawed/horribly fallacious/just generally terrible arguments that believers in magical healing use.

You Wish! As time goes by and more healed your argument weakens...wait it never had any strength to weaken because it was always merely an opinion. Jesus Christ, is what stands between your argument having any weight, merit or truth.
You would have to disprove he was the Son of God and did what he did. Not luck of that any time soon. Which leaves you with less hope than Bob Hope and that is in fact No HOPE...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Shaker

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #111 on: April 08, 2016, 10:36:50 AM »
You Wish! As time goes by and more healed
No evidence of this.
Quote
You would have to disprove he was the Son of God and did what he did.
Negative proof fallacy. You assert it, you prove it, otherwise Hitchens's First Law applies - what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sassy

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #112 on: April 08, 2016, 10:38:56 AM »
Pagan beliefs are exactly as true as your beliefs. They have the same merit, purpose, and value - and also precisely the same evidence.

ht

You are in a good mood!

But, I believe you know that they do not.
Jesus Christ, he is far more evidence than any belief you hold in paganism.
You see Jesus Christ teaches us to worship the creator not the created.

Paganism by it's very roots is the worship of the male elements of nature.
It is totally and absolutely different to the worship of God as creator.

The evidence does NOT SUPPORT your opinion and shows not factual evidence for what you try to claim.

Simply saying it won't make it so. That is similar to you believing in paganism. It won't make it real because you say it.

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Shaker

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #113 on: April 08, 2016, 10:41:03 AM »
Simply saying it won't make it so. That is similar to you believing in paganism. It won't make it real because you say it.
A point entirely lost on you, ironically (and hypocritically).
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2016, 10:47:20 AM »


Simply saying it won't make it so.

Coincidently, neither does putting stuff in
 really big fonts
 ::)

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2016, 10:48:51 AM »
You Wish! As time goes by and more healed your argument weakens...wait it never had any strength to weaken because it was always merely an opinion. Jesus Christ, is what stands between your argument having any weight, merit or truth.
You would have to disprove he was the Son of God and did what he did. Not luck of that any time soon. Which leaves you with less hope than Bob Hope and that is in fact No HOPE...
As I have mentioned previously what we might describe as 'spontaneous healing' is actually much more common than we might think - actually it happens all the time, for most trauma or illness. So the physiology of the body is well set up to achieve this. Sure there are cases where the body's physiology is overwhelmed by pathology or trauma to an extent where it cannot successfully heal itself and medical intervention is necessary - but in every case there will be a physiological response attempted and many medical treatments are designed to work alongside or augment the body's natural response.

Given that most pathologies and most physiologies are a spectrum it isn't surprising that you will get occasional circumstances where the pathology is at the low end of the spectrum and the physiological response at the high end of the spectrum and therefore spontaneous healing or remission will occur for conditions that usually don't heal.

So far so completely 'natural'.

Further it is the case that there are things that can boost (or suppress) our natural healing abilities - and those are often linked to our psychological state of well-being. So for example someone who is clinically depressed will often has a suppressed ability to fight off disease through suppression of their immune system and physiology. Conversely things which boost well being can enhance the immune system's ability to fight off disease. Just this week singing in a choir was reported to have this effect. I don't doubt that for believers praying or worship may have a similar effect to choral singing, but again this is entirely natural, through psychological effects and their link to the functioning of the immune system and other physiology.

But of course none of this requires a god, nor Jesus etc and of course there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that spontaneous healing for conditions where spontaneous healing isn't the norm, is anything other than a rare but completely natural phenomenon.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 01:16:20 PM by ProfessorDavey »

Sassy

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #116 on: April 08, 2016, 12:31:42 PM »
Coincidently, neither does putting stuff in
 really big fonts
 ::)

It is to get it noticed... and see it works perfectly... ::) ;D

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #117 on: April 08, 2016, 12:40:48 PM »
Your nonsense certainly gets noticed Sass, flagging up to all how silly you are. ::)

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #118 on: April 08, 2016, 12:48:14 PM »
It is to get it noticed... and see it works perfectly... ::) ;D

but .....

it won't make it so.

Which is the point being made but that I suppose is lost on the hard of thinking?  ::)
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Sassy

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #119 on: April 08, 2016, 12:51:22 PM »
but .....

Which is the point being made but that I suppose is lost on the hard of thinking?  ::)

That last part is an opinion and one which is not really any value as it cannot be proved by you.
A passing comment which has no value to what was related to in the original post.
I was trying to save myself the bother of having to write it... ::)
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Appeal to lurkers
« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2016, 12:54:35 PM »
That last part is an opinion and one which is not really any value as it cannot be proved by you.

What can't be proved?
The opinion, it's value or that someone seem to be hard of thinking?  ::) ::)
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein