If Jesus did come back would you want to kill him?

[floo]

Hope did say ''probably''.  I've never thought about how he would look.  Sass believes he will come in glory in clouds which is what is written by John in Revelation.  I have mixed feelings, Jesus could have meant the Holy Spirit.  If he does return in the flesh (not descending on a cloud), I doubt anyone would recognise him.

I bet the guy would look nothing like the artistic depictions of him.

[Bubbles]

Sorry, with the exception of Ippy!

Being perfect is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder.

It's all subjective

[Bubbles]

If Jesus behaved towards Pagans and atheists like Sassy implies he wouldn't be perfect.

[floo]

If Jesus behaved towards Pagans and atheists like Sassy implies he wouldn't be perfect.

You only have to read the gospels to see the guy was far from perfect.

[Hope]

You only have to read the gospels to see the guy was far from perfect.

I've read them plenty of times, and can't say that I've notice that 'the guy was far from perfect'.

[Shaker]

I've read them plenty of times, and can't say that I've notice that 'the guy was far from perfect'.

Killing a large number of animals for absolutely no reason whatever; cursing a tree; improvising a DIY weapon with which to attack people; referring to a group of people as dogs (all very much allegedly, needless to say) ... shall I continue?

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

I've read them plenty of times, and can't say that I've notice that 'the guy was far from perfect'.

Committing genocide in the OT? He is the same guy after all, apparently.

[floo]

I've read them plenty of times, and can't say that I've notice that 'the guy was far from perfect'.

Didn't he supposedly trash the Temple which is vandalism, frighten some pigs over the cliff when playing silly beggars by pretending to cast out demons, tell people to leave their responsibilities to follow him? Jesus had a very high opinion of himself, which wasn't shared by his family and people where he grew up. Had he been the spawn of the deity it should have been obvious to all.

[Aruntraveller]

Killing a large number of animals for absolutely no reason whatever; cursing a tree; improvising a DIY weapon with which to attack people; referring to a group of people as dogs (all very much allegedly, needless to say) ... shall I continue?

Come, come....surely you know you are taking these passages out of context, not allowing for the allegorical, hyperbolical, diabolic elements that the authors were so clearly trying to express. Do keep up with the excuses.

[floo]

Come, come....surely you know you are taking these passages out of context, not allowing for the allegorical, hyperbolical, diabolic elements that the authors were so clearly trying to express. Do keep up with the excuses.

WHOOPS!

[Sassy]

If Jesus behaved towards Pagans and atheists like Sassy implies he wouldn't be perfect.

Hi Rose,

Nope! Looked but cannot find the 'implies' bit.
Will you show us and explain what it is you think it implies and why Jesus would not be perfect as in perfectly free from sin, I assume.

[Sassy]

Killing a large number of animals for absolutely no reason whatever;

He saved a persons life and set them free from suffering. If it was a choice between a sounder of swine or your sons life which would you choose?  Why do you not tell the truth as it is written?
Do you think the meat you eat comes from animals who died of natural causes?

cursing a tree;

Don't we cut trees down for furniture and paper etc? What is your problem they cut them down to build all the time.
No different in Christs time.


 

improvising a DIY weapon with which to attack people;

That amused me... he replaces the ear cut off by a sword when people came with swords to fetch him and Peter tried to stop them. As Christ said: If you live by the Sword you will die by the sword. You have to fight if using a sword so chances are that is the way you will go. The sword for the believer is the Spirit of God who is the giver of the word to us.

referring to a group of people as dogs (all very much allegedly, needless to say) ... shall I continue?

But even the dogs are allowed to eat up the crumbs from their masters table.

Maybe twisting things out of context is how you survive but in the end the truth always comes out. Just as Christ will return.

[Shaker]

He saved a persons life and set them free from suffering. If it was a choice between a sounder of swine or your sons life which would you choose?  Why do you not tell the truth as it is written?

Supposedly being an omnipotent entity I assume that the option of saving a life without the destruction of a herd of pigs was an option? By that I mean removing (so-called) demons to another place, simply making them disappear back to the infernal regions or whatever, without the cheap parlour trickery with the pigs.

Could Jesus have done that or could he not have done that?

If he could have, why didn't he?

If it wasn't an option, why wasn't it?

Bertrand Russell also picked up on this point: "There is the instance of the Gadarene swine, where it certainly was not very kind to the pigs to put the devils into them and make them rush down the hill into the sea. You must remember that he was omnipotent, and he could have made the devils simply go away; but he chose to send them into the pigs."

Do you think the meat you eat comes from animals who died of natural causes?

I haven't eaten meat in twenty-three years. I was a vegetarian for eight years and have now been largely vegan for the past fifteen.

Don't we cut trees down for furniture and paper etc? What is your problem they cut them down to build all the time.
No different in Christs time.

Trees aren't sentient. Any more than you appear to be, for that matter.

Maybe twisting things out of context is how you survive but in the end the truth always comes out. Just as Christ will return.

Good luck with that.

[Sassy]

Supposedly being an omnipotent entity I assume that the option of saving a life without the destruction of a herd of pigs was an option? By that I mean removing (so-called) demons to another place, simply making them disappear back to the infernal regions or whatever, without the cheap parlour trickery with the pigs.

Could Jesus have done that or could he not have done that?

If he could have, why didn't he?

Tell me where this other place is? Did the demons not want to go before their time?
Hence a time and place for everything...Why are you bothered about a herd of pigs when you do not think your own soul important enough to save? You cannot have any real concern for those pigs when you hold your own life and soul in such little regard.

If it wasn't an option, why wasn't it?

Why did it require such an option?

Bertrand Russell also picked up on this point: "There is the instance of the Gadarene swine, where it certainly was not very kind to the pigs to put the devils into them and make them rush down the hill into the sea. You must remember that he was omnipotent, and he could have made the devils simply go away; but he chose to send them into the pigs." 
I haven't eaten meat in twenty-three years. I was a vegetarian for eight years and have now been largely vegan for the past fifteen.Trees aren't sentient. Any more than you appear to be, for that matter.Good luck with that.

Christ died a horrible death worse than pigs running down a cliff and into water.
You claim to be concerned for the pigs but ignore the fact God who is true Omnipotent sent his son to die for the WRONGS YOU DID and yet you insult him. Till you can show reasoning based in true  concern for others then you shall have no answer.
Simply because you have no real empathy, love or truth for anyone human let alone pigs.

[Shaker]

Tell me where this other place is?

The hell that Jesus believed in, according to your book.

Did the demons not want to go before their time?

Why would Jesus care about what demons want?

Why are you bothered about a herd of pigs when you do not think your own soul important enough to save? You cannot have any real concern for those pigs when you hold your own life and soul in such little regard.

I like pigs, and consider talk of immaterial souls superstitious bilge of the terminally credulous.

Christ died a horrible death worse than pigs running down a cliff and into water.

That was up to him, according to the story. The pigs had no choice in the matter.

You claim to be concerned for the pigs but ignore the fact God who is true Omnipotent sent his son to die for the WRONGS YOU DID and yet you insult him.

You can't insult what doesn't exist.

Till you can show reasoning based in true  concern for others then you shall have no answer.

Coward.

[floo]

If Jesus was any sort of deity he wouldn't have needed to transfer demons to a herd of pigs, unless he wished to case them suffering and ruin the pig farmer!

[Sebastian Toe]

Tell me where this other place is? Did the demons not want to go before their time?

Maybe if he had sent them into a swarm of bluebottles and have them eaten by a bird that would have been a natural thng and a lot  less onerous?
Or even at the very, very least put all of the devils into just one poor pig, after all they were all in one man. 

What were the pigs there for, did they not belong to some poor swine farmer?
Did he loose his livelihood, did people go hungry at the loss of a food source (there were about 2000 of the poor animals for goodness sake!)

This is not showing the main player in a good light!

[floo]

Maybe if he had sent them into a swarm of bluebottles and have them eaten by a bird that would have been a natural thng and a lot  less onerous?
Or even at the very, very least put all of the devils into just one poor pig, after all they were all in one man. 

What were the pigs there for, did they not belong to some poor swine farmer?
Did he loose his livelihood, did people go hungry at the loss of a food source (there were about 2000 of the poor animals for goodness sake!)

This is not showing the main player in a good light!

Maybe a herd of pigs were frightened over a cliff by accident on the part of Jesus and his crowd of followers, and the silly demonic possession tale was put about as an excuse for the incident?

[Bubbles]

Maybe herd of pig were frightened over a cliff by accident on the part of Jesus and his crowd of followers, and the silly demonic possession tale was put about as an excuse for the incident?

You mean he preached and the pigs ran off?

I've met people occasionally that as soon as they start, people make themselves scarce

[Shaker]

You mean he preached and the pigs ran off?

I've met people occasionally that as soon as they start, people make themselves scarce

Plenty of those on here

[Rhiannon]

Personally I favour the idea that the story of the Gaderene Swine was a satirical reference to a Roman legion, possibly even the Tenth Fratensis. It would have been intended to give hope to Christians that Jesus - and by association his followers - would be triumphant over the Roman occupation.

And yet some two thousand years later apparently educated people believe it should be taken literally and that it really did happen.

[Hope]

Personally I favour the idea that the story of the Gaderene Swine was a satirical reference to a Roman legion, possibly even the Tenth Fratensis. It would have been intended to give hope to Christians that Jesus - and by association his followers - would be triumphant over the Roman occupation.

And yet some two thousand years later apparently educated people believe it should be taken literally and that it really did happen.

The probloem with the idea that "It would have been intended to give hope to Christians that Jesus - and by association his followers - would be triumphant over the Roman occupation" is that by this stage, Jesus had already taught that he wasn't here to overthrow the Romans but had a far wider remit to fulfil.  If yoiu can come up with a metaphorical meaning that takes that existing teaching into account, I'd be happy to hear it.

[Sassy]

Not sure what the problem is with pigs being possessed and then throwing themselves over a cliff.
Did the pigs cause it or the demons?

[Shaker]

Not sure what the problem is with pigs being possessed and then throwing themselves over a cliff.

Because (according to the story) it was deliberately and unnecessarily cruel to the pigs, given that presumably Jesus could have simply made these so-called demons disappear or if not that, then to go into some inanimate object rather than a herd of pigs.

Did the pigs cause it or the demons?

Neither - Jesus did according to the story.

[floo]

Not sure what the problem is with pigs being possessed and then throwing themselves over a cliff.
Did the pigs cause it or the demons?

Of course the pigs weren't possessed that is arrant nonsense. Jesus was playing silly hocus pocus and frightened the poor creatures, which wasn't to his credit at all. The poor pig farmer certainly lost out.