Ole Miss, some mainly Christians, the whole gays aren't equal thing

[Nearly Sane]

Non-religious homophobia really is a puzzle, since the non-religious (unlike the religious) don't even have the pseudo-excuse of so-called sacred scripture to hide behind. I think it was trentvoyager (apologies if wrong) who said recently however that religion if it permeates society for long enough can allow its own homophobia to filter into wider society and thus rub off even on the non-religious. Sounds about right to me.

Fortunately for the good of right-thinking people everywhere, this sort of influence wanes and finally fades away as the generations thus influenced die out.

I don't understand how an atheist can think that religious homophobia isn't created by people and so can be held by non religious people too. If there isn't a god then all the homophobia in religion is merely the homophobia we as a species produce. We manage to hate for so many reasons, this is just one more.

[jakswan]

Non-religious homophobia really is a puzzle, since the non-religious (unlike the religious) don't even have the pseudo-excuse of so-called sacred scripture to hide behind. I think it was trentvoyager (apologies if wrong) who said recently however that religion if it permeates society for long enough can allow its own homophobia to filter into wider society and thus rub off even on the non-religious. Sounds about right to me.

Fortunately for the good of right-thinking people everywhere, this sort of influence wanes and finally fades away as the generations thus influenced die out.

I think as a heterosexual its quite natural to have a 'yuck' reaction to two men getting it on, it follows from that. I was homophobic up until c. 16 but I couldn't rationalise it and any argument I made was pathetic and forced to change my view a full 180.

If I was religious I would have had an excuse to carry on with my view, religion is a friend of bigots everywhere, you never have to admit you are wrong!

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I admire your way of acceptance of anyone calling you boot nose, or worse and you don't give a fig about it, I'm much the same, by the way I'm not calling you boot nose, I have no reason to do so. If I did? (Supposed humour).

You can call me boot nose if you want - if you feel it's justified

Now if you in fact look into his posts on this thread it makes me wonder how anybody can make such horrible remarks as he does about and directly to gay people, there several gay people on this forum so I have seen where they have stated that they are gay, other than that, I have zero interest in anyone's sexuality whatever it happens to be.

On this thread I only saw his remarks relating to the bill - maybe I missed the horrible remarks to gay people or I have a different definition of horrible. I accept you think they are horrible though.

I do however take offence at racial remarks, I have two mixed race sons and offensive remarks made against any other person that happens to be the way they are because that's the way they were born, as with my sons.

In real life yes.  I don't usually feel upset about comments on an internet forum from people I don't interact with in real life. On here, personally I might think some comments offensive, but most of the time I would be more interested in picking apart the basis of those comments with them - it is also a more interesting read when other people are analytical. Though the forum caters to all needs and sometimes cutting sarcasm is good too.

Hope, the paragon of virtue a prime example to his community, is another one of those unthinking brain dead locked in by dogma homophobes and hasn't got the strength of character to stand up against these disgusting views and be counted as one of the more enlightened ones in his group, maybe he hasn't got the guts to stand up and be counted on this issue.

Maybe. Or maybe he holds views that sit comfortably with him and so far he doesn't see a need to change them even if they upset, annoy, anger other people.

I can't imagine why he seems to have some need to spit out this vile obnoxious bile of his, if it's his affiliation to whatever the religious beliefs of his group happens to be, it doesn't say a lot for them either.

ippy

It's an internet forum - it's for discussing and exploring ideas. Who knows what views he expresses in real life - we don't know him in real life - only his persona on here.   

[Nearly Sane]

I think as a heterosexual its quite natural to have a 'yuck' reaction to two men getting it on, it follows from that. I was homophobic up until c. 16 but I couldn't rationalise it and any argument I made was pathetic and forced to change my view a full 180.

If I was religious I would have had an excuse to carry on with my view, religion is a friend of bigots everywhere, you never have to admit you are wrong!

This is all well and good but I know plenty of religious people who would say the same thing, and plenty of non religious people who would just say in their opinion, homosexuality is wrong.

[ippy]

You can call me boot nose if you want - if you feel it's justified

On this thread I only saw his remarks relating to the bill - maybe I missed the horrible remarks to gay people or I have a different definition of horrible. I accept you think they are horrible though.
In real life yes.  I don't usually feel upset about comments on an internet forum from people I don't interact with in real life. On here, personally I might think some comments offensive, but most of the time I would be more interested in picking apart the basis of those comments with them - it is also a more interesting read when other people are analytical. Though the forum caters to all needs and sometimes cutting sarcasm is good too.
Maybe. Or maybe he holds views that sit comfortably with him and so far he doesn't see a need to change them even if they upset, annoy, anger other people.
It's an internet forum - it's for discussing and exploring ideas. Who knows what views he expresses in real life - we don't know him in real life - only his persona on here.

I can appreciate not being particularly interested or bothered about most comments made on line, we had a poster on this forum that said he was a football trainer he only trained youngsters, and he said that he enjoyed his work but wouldn't train any of these youngsters if he found that that they were gay, I don't need to hear anything more from people like him, whoever was doing the moderation at the time banned him from the forum, good decision from my pov, not needed on journey thank you very much.

Hope is tending to go in this direction, he's not as bad as that trainer yet, whilst I like your not so serious, not quite light and fluffy but going in that direction approach, there are some things that go that bit to far and need something done about them, homophobia so parallels with racism and any decent and fair minded person wouldn't want anything to do with racism.

ippy


PS Boot nose.

[jeremyp]

Why do you discriminate against Christians because they hold different beliefs about God, to those held by you?

Just FYI, holding Christians to the same standards and rules as everybody else does not count as discrimination.

[jeremyp]

Ole Miss,  some mainly Christians, the whole gays aren't equal thing

I have to challenge this... it has been bothering me that the opening statement says "Gays aren't equal thing".
So I ask... Equal in what way?

Equal in being able to book a hotel room and not be refused service, for example. Equal in having the right to get married to somebody they love for another example.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Just FYI, holding Christians to the same standards and rules as everybody else does not count as discrimination.

I am still waiting for an apology for that particular piece of libel she made against me.

I won't let it drop until I get one either.

[jeremyp]

I am still waiting for an apology for that particular piece of libel she made against me.

I won't let it drop until I get one either.

Don't hold your breath.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Don't hold your breath.

I don't mind if people disagree with me. I don't care if people don't like me.

I do care when people tell out and out lies about me though.

[Rhiannon]

With respect, you do know that prefixing a sentence with "with respect" means you are about to trash the other person in a disrespectful way but adding "with respect" at the front makes it all OK again.

Hope has, unfortunately, recently been ill so I expect he is taking a lot of drugs to keep him well. But OMG CRACK COCAINE IS A DRUG! Therefore, according to his "logic" all drugs are bad.

With respect, I associate politeness with respectfulness, and your post to Hope was politer than I would have been - or than his post deserved, arguably.

[john]

I see Bruce Springsteen has pulled out of a concert in North Carolina because of this anti LGBT law. And that PayPall has withdrawn its plans to build a new office there costing the state 400 new jobs. Other major companies and sports organisers are also boycotting the state..... Hope this helps put the dinosaurs back into their closet. (see what I did there?) I like Bruce Springsteen now, clearly a man prepared to stand up for his beliefs despite the fact it will cost him loadsa money.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36000905

[Shaker]

He's not short of a bob or two so I don't think he'll be taking a noticeable hit in the wallet but I agree, good on him (and PayPal). A man of principle, clearly.

[Sassy]

I think as a heterosexual its quite natural to have a 'yuck' reaction to two men getting it on, it follows from that. I was homophobic up until c. 16 but I couldn't rationalise it and any argument I made was pathetic and forced to change my view a full 180.

If I was religious I would have had an excuse to carry on with my view, religion is a friend of bigots everywhere, you never have to admit you are wrong!

Whilst our perception can find fault that is truly hidden at times.
You see the big mistake is to think that one finding homosexuality not normal or right according to their own personal feelings does not make the person a bigot. A Christian who believes God says homosexuality is not the right way for his people does not make them a bigot.

Religion is not a friend of bigots... Racist bigots... -are not all religions inclusive of people from every creed, races and even nations?
It is too simple and unrealistic to make such comments when Homophobia is found in all races, and nations both atheist, agnostic and theist alike.

Homophobia is something people of every walk of life can be affected by.

Being a Christian, Atheist or Agnostic does not in themselves make a person homophobic.

[floo]

Whilst our perception can find fault that is truly hidden at times.
You see the big mistake is to think that one finding homosexuality not normal or right according to their own personal feelings does not make the person a bigot. A Christian who believes God says homosexuality is not the right way for his people does not make them a bigot.

Religion is not a friend of bigots... Racist bigots... -are not all religions inclusive of people from every creed, races and even nations?
It is too simple and unrealistic to make such comments when Homophobia is found in all races, and nations both atheist, agnostic and theist alike.

Homophobia is something people of every walk of life can be affected by.

Being a Christian, Atheist or Agnostic does not in themselves make a person homophobic.

Being prejudiced against homosexuality makes a person a nasty bigot, as would it make god too. Bigotry is WRONG!

[Brownie]

He's not short of a bob or two so I don't think he'll be taking a noticeable hit in the wallet but I agree, good on him (and PayPal). A man of principle, clearly.

Hear hear. He is truly The Boss. Good on PayPal too.

[floo]

Hear hear. He is truly The Boss. Good on PayPal too.

I agree.

[Shaker]

Still waiting for Hope's "scientific and objective arguments" (#28) against homosexuality.

It's already on the ever-expanding list of Hope's dodged questions, but you never know.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Still waiting for Hope's "scientific and objective arguments" against homosexuality.

It's already on the ever-expanding list of Hope's dodged questions but you never know.

But there's an issue with scientific arguments isn't there in that scientific arguments are made which can be interpreted as being homophobic vis statistical normality and whether there is a vehicle for the promulgation of genes.

I'm not big on soliciting science to settle moral questions but I know atheists are

[Shaker]

Hope is the one who invoked science here (see #28), not me, and he isn't an atheist as far as I'm aware. Take it up with him.

If he ever shows up here again.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hope is the one who invoked science here (see #28), not me, and he isn't an atheist as far as I'm aware. Take it up with him.

If he ever shows up here again.

What's your view on science and morality?

[Shaker]

I would ask in relation to what specifically but that would seem to be taking us way off topic.

[Stranger]

But there's an issue with scientific arguments isn't there in that scientific arguments are made which can be interpreted as being homophobic vis statistical normality and whether there is a vehicle for the promulgation of genes.

The key word is "interpreted" - science doesn't tell us that statistical normality is right or wrong, it doesn't tell us that humans passing on genes is right or wrong, it doesn't tell us that human survival is right or wrong.

Science doesn't do right or wrong, in the moral sense, at all.

I'm not big on soliciting science to settle moral questions but I know atheists are

What atheists?

Science can't, by itself, answer moral questions.

[Hope]

...  despite the fact it will cost him loadsa money.

Will it?  When all the expenses are totted up, a single concert doesn't bring that much money in to a performer.  Full, months-long tours may, when all added together, but there are so many other ways that stars like Bruce earn money as to make this pretty insignificant.

[Shaker]

Still waiting.