Author Topic: Experiences  (Read 24910 times)

Udayana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5478
  • βε ηερε νοω
    • The Byrds - My Back Pages
Re: Experiences
« Reply #75 on: April 07, 2016, 01:56:45 PM »
There are many different ways these experiences can be brought about.
http://www.astralinfo.org/astral-projection-methods/

In the past I've found a variation of the Christos method effective as well as following particular threads of visualisation. Often these experiences relate to religious concepts or, at least, are described in religious terms.

But the questions is, how do these experiences actually validate any religious beliefs or viewpoints?

They are experiences inside your head, and as such can be meaningful as you are getting a different view of the "world inside your head". But, also, isn't the real world just inside our heads too? How can one distinguish what is really really out there with what you actually experience? In a way what these experiences show you is to be wary about deciding what is really "out there" and what is just a reflection/projection of yourself.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

horsethorn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12131
  • Anomalographer
    • "We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)
Re: Experiences
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2016, 02:55:33 PM »
I was reading a book or I was using a technique or even I was holding my breathe while I had my finger up my arse.

In case you missed it or if I didn't make it clear I experienced an understanding of the meaning of the old book, an awareness of the mind behind Lewis and other writings and Jesus knocking on the door not to mention experiencing eventually the holiness of God and my separation from him........but then I don't want to end up trading experiences in a mine is bigger and better than yours which you keep unavoidably straying into.

Christianity records many experiences while people are reading although I was not reading anything when I asked Jesus to ''take it all''.

The point is though at the start of my journey the bible is an incomprehensible meaningless quaint old book as loved by nutters and at my conversion moment a profound work inspired and illuminated by a very real mind and God.

I would also like to point out that the whole thing was technique free. I'm still not big on technique myself but don't deny they have results. I also want to make it clear that I do not knock yours.
 

Fair enough. I was hoping you'd be willing to be a bit more open about it, as others have been, but if you don't want to, then that's your choice.

It sounds like a gradual enlightenment, based on your evolving internal symbology. As you acquired the symbols and terminology, the experiential progress moved forward. I've come across a few of these, but they are by no means common.

How did it feel when you had your "awareness of the mind behind Lewis and other writings"? And "Jesus knocking on the door" and "the holiness of God and my separation from him"? Could you give some more detail about each of these?

As can be seen from other posts, technique is not necessarily required; it can happen spontaneously.

Thanks
ht
Darth Horsethorn, Most Patient Saint®, Senior Wrangler®, Knight Inerrant® and Gonnagle of the Reformed Church of the Debatable Saints®
Steampunk Panentheist
Not an atheist
"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Experiences
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2016, 03:25:40 PM »
Fair enough. I was hoping you'd be willing to be a bit more open about it, as others have been, but if you don't want to, then that's your choice.

It sounds like a gradual enlightenment, based on your evolving internal symbology. As you acquired the symbols and terminology, the experiential progress moved forward. I've come across a few of these, but they are by no means common.

How did it feel when you had your "awareness of the mind behind Lewis and other writings"? And "Jesus knocking on the door" and "the holiness of God and my separation from him"? Could you give some more detail about each of these?

As can be seen from other posts, technique is not necessarily required; it can happen spontaneously.

Thanks

ht

Alright for you Horsethorn: on discovery of the mind or God behind the religious writings excitement and exhilaration. On reading Augustine about wanting to be a Christian but later a bit negatively disturbed but vaguely.
On finally having to either open the door to Christ and surrender all life, heart and soul to him or Keep the door shut In turmoil. To have the image of life without Christ being like a pudding without taste.....the very life emptied out of me. After asking Jesus to take it all. The dissociation lifted.

And that is probably all I'd like to say since everyone should have there own experience of God

Mod: edited for clarity
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 03:59:24 PM by horsethorn »

SweetPea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
  • John 8:32
Re: Experiences
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2016, 04:19:57 PM »
What, Horsethorn?

You've edited, Vlad's experience for clarity??

Vlad has absolutely not need to enlarge on his experience to anyone.

Why aren't you asking other posters to enlarge on their experiences.....eh, Horsethorn?


Older posters on this forum know exactly what's going-on here. And it's very, very sad.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64323
Re: Experiences
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2016, 04:36:29 PM »
What, Horsethorn?

You've edited, Vlad's experience for clarity??

Vlad has absolutely not need to enlarge on his experience to anyone.

Why aren't you asking other posters to enlarge on their experiences.....eh, Horsethorn?


Older posters on this forum know exactly what's going-on here. And it's very, very sad.

What is going on?

Dicky Underpants

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4369
Re: Experiences
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2016, 04:44:32 PM »
..if only Sparky was here, he would have a name for that!   ;)

 ;D ;D
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

horsethorn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12131
  • Anomalographer
    • "We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)
Re: Experiences
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2016, 04:45:01 PM »
I edited Vlad's comment because he had typed his comment inside the [ quote ] area around my post. It looked like I had written the whole comment.

ht
Darth Horsethorn, Most Patient Saint®, Senior Wrangler®, Knight Inerrant® and Gonnagle of the Reformed Church of the Debatable Saints®
Steampunk Panentheist
Not an atheist
"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

Dicky Underpants

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4369
Re: Experiences
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2016, 04:46:24 PM »
Gonners wrote:
Quote
that naked fat man running rampant through the forum

I'm getting (more) worried about what goes on in your head, Gonners...

ht

Nicholas Parsons?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 04:50:54 PM by Dicky Underpants »
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

horsethorn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12131
  • Anomalographer
    • "We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)
Re: Experiences
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2016, 04:48:11 PM »
What, Horsethorn?

You've edited, Vlad's experience for clarity??

Vlad has absolutely not need to enlarge on his experience to anyone.

Why aren't you asking other posters to enlarge on their experiences.....eh, Horsethorn?


Older posters on this forum know exactly what's going-on here. And it's very, very sad.

See my post above.

The reason I asked him for more detail was because there wasn't much detail. It was difficult to discern what was immediate and descriptive, from what was concluded afterwards.

Other people have posted about theirs before - or they were clear enough to understand.

You may note that Gonners has made comments about mine, which I have responded to, without getting upset.


Yes, older posters do know what's going on. You're trying to suggest some kind of persecution is going on. There is not.

ht
Darth Horsethorn, Most Patient Saint®, Senior Wrangler®, Knight Inerrant® and Gonnagle of the Reformed Church of the Debatable Saints®
Steampunk Panentheist
Not an atheist
"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Experiences
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2016, 04:50:40 PM »
I edited Vlad's comment because he had typed his comment inside the [ quote ] area around my post. It looked like I had written the whole comment.

ht
I can confirm Horsethorn has maintained the content I put on.
Nothing sinister here.

Sorry I posted in Horsethorn's post

SweetPea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
  • John 8:32
Re: Experiences
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2016, 05:00:28 PM »
See my post above.

The reason I asked him for more detail was because there wasn't much detail. It was difficult to discern what was immediate and descriptive, from what was concluded afterwards.

Other people have posted about theirs before - or they were clear enough to understand.

You may note that Gonners has made comments about mine, which I have responded to, without getting upset.


Yes, older posters do know what's going on. You're trying to suggest some kind of persecution is going on. There is not.

ht

My mistake. But that's how it looked having not seen the original post.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64323
Re: Experiences
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2016, 05:03:48 PM »
My mistake. But that's how it looked having not seen the original post.
Which doesn't really cover what you had decided was going on? What was that and why did you see this as something that referring to 'older posters' implied a pattern of behaviour?

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Experiences
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2016, 05:09:31 PM »
What, Horsethorn?

You've edited, Vlad's experience for clarity??

Vlad has absolutely not need to enlarge on his experience to anyone.

Why aren't you asking other posters to enlarge on their experiences.....eh, Horsethorn?


Older posters on this forum know exactly what's going-on here. And it's very, very sad.

Hi Sweetpea. Horsethorn is right when he says he has unwrapped my post from his. My content has been left untouched or changed.
 I don't mind expanding for his sake  and have previously expressed my concerns to him about his response to my post.

Many thanks for your concerns and support Sweetpea.

SweetPea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
  • John 8:32
Re: Experiences
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2016, 05:18:47 PM »
Which doesn't really cover what you had decided was going on? What was that and why did you see this as something that referring to 'older posters' implied a pattern of behaviour?

If you look at reply #38 from Horsethorn to Vlad, it's rather curt.... or that's my perception.
Then, Horsethorn  kept asking Vlad for more detail on his experience. Long-standing members of the forum know Horsethorn and Vlad have a 'history'. So, I saw an old pattern emerging..... again, my perception.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

SweetPea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
  • John 8:32
Re: Experiences
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2016, 05:21:40 PM »
Hi Sweetpea. Horsethorn is right when he says he has unwrapped my post from his. My content has been left untouched or changed.
 I don't mind expanding for his sake  and have previously expressed my concerns to him about his response to my post.

Many thanks for your concerns and support Sweetpea.

That's ok, Vlad. Posting personal experiences can not always be easy.... because of just that.... they are personal. I've posted mine before now and regretted it.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

Dicky Underpants

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4369
Re: Experiences
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2016, 05:24:27 PM »
The point is though at the start of my journey the bible is an incomprehensible meaningless quaint old book as loved by nutters and at my conversion moment a profound work inspired and illuminated by a very real mind and God.


I well remember my conversion to the supposed supreme significance of the Bible. I was eleven. As a good boy I had been previously sent regularly to Methodist sunday school and occasional visits to C of E. The Christian message didn't percolate very deep, though Jesus seemed an admirable guy (still does).

However, I got talking to a school friend who was a Jehovah's Witness, whose family lived in my village. I talked with them all regularly, and learned their explanation of the Bible as an unfolding drama from creation, interspersed with Christ's teaching, death and resurrection, and ending with the last judgment. As this gradually sank in, I did indeed see the Bible as "a profound [indeed, inerrant] work inspired and illuminated by a very real mind and God". The heavens truly opened to me - I seemed to view the whole panorama of human history, and was amazed that I might play some little part in it, and that I was loved. Three years later, I realised that this was a load of shite. The Bible is not inerrant and Jesus was mistaken if he ever believed he was God's Son (let alone God incarnate - of course not a JW belief). Subsequent experience of Christian cultural stuff (esp music) and reading a number of Christian commentators, has never brought me back to any kind of belief in the spiritual claims of Christianity, whether Trinitarian, Arian or anything else.
Still, I seemed to have a strong desire for 'spiritual illumination'. This took me 'eastwards'. One day, whilst I was meditating, and quietly repeating OM to myself, all perception of my surroundings dissolved, and I was pierced through with rays of light, indeed seemed to be just a part of those rays of light. I don't know how long the experience lasted, but when I came to myself in the room, there were tears pouring down my cheeks.
The difficulty with understanding such an experience comes when you think "WTF do I do now - go to an ashram in India?" No doubt the experience gave some direction to my life at the time, but it did increasingly seem to have little to do with my everyday life.
I maintained an interest in things mystical though, and became quite an adept in out-of-the-body experiences. These were very colourful. Visions of swimming freely underwater in pellucid rivers, and seeing mile-high cathedrals formed from coloured lights. One experience I remember vividly occurred during a long period of intense physical pain. I seemed to leave my body, but get stuck in a dreary attic! However, with an effort of will, I burst through the roof and soon was soaring freely over a glorious landscape of mountains and forests.

A very mundane experience of this kind occurred when I was in a toilet on a train. I'd been running to catch the train, got to the toilet, at which point the train started with a jolt, and my upright consciousness became separated from my body, which I saw collapsing over the wash basin. I came to on the floor, as my whole perceptions disintegrated in a kaleidoscope of colours. It was some time before I was "reintegrated".

But - all in the mind, my dear Watson, all in the mind.

This is a fascinating thread, though. You can probably see why I'm very sympathetic towards the views of Horsethorn (great to see him back again, btw) Rhiannon and wiggi - even though I no longer place any spiritual explanation on these phenomena.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 05:29:26 PM by Dicky Underpants »
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Dicky Underpants

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4369
Re: Experiences
« Reply #91 on: April 07, 2016, 05:31:49 PM »
They are experiences inside your head, and as such can be meaningful as you are getting a different view of the "world inside your head". But, also, isn't the real world just inside our heads too? How can one distinguish what is really really out there with what you actually experience? In a way what these experiences show you is to be wary about deciding what is really "out there" and what is just a reflection/projection of yourself.

Quite so
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Experiences
« Reply #92 on: April 07, 2016, 05:50:19 PM »
That's ok, Vlad. Posting personal experiences can not always be easy.... because of just that.... they are personal. I've posted mine before now and regretted it.
Yes We can expect the inevitable antitheist "Sarc-fest".

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Experiences
« Reply #93 on: April 07, 2016, 05:58:30 PM »


This is a fascinating thread, though. You can probably see why I'm very sympathetic towards the views of Horsethorn (great to see him back again, btw) Rhiannon and wiggi - even though I no longer place any spiritual explanation on these phenomena.
Pants

Since this is the most mellowest of threads I can give the laid back response of "whatever floats your boat" rather than vilify you for your complete and utter Fucktardy............the obviousness of which is perhaps the only revelation which has been shared.

Dicky Underpants

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4369
Re: Experiences
« Reply #94 on: April 07, 2016, 06:06:37 PM »
Pants

Since this is the most mellowest of threads I can give the laid back response of "whatever floats your boat" rather than vilify you for your complete and utter Fucktardy............the obviousness of which is perhaps the only revelation which has been shared.

Lovely boy!

Pity you weren't able to see beyond the puerile non-sequiturs of C.S. Lewis. But then I've learned not to expect too much from you....
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Experiences
« Reply #95 on: April 07, 2016, 06:12:23 PM »
Lovely boy!

Pity you weren't able to see beyond the puerile non-sequiturs of C.S. Lewis. But then I've learned not to expect too much from you....
Seeing beyond Lewis and finding views like yours presented in a twattish idiom you mean?

Dicky Underpants

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4369
Re: Experiences
« Reply #96 on: April 07, 2016, 06:18:07 PM »
Seeing beyond Lewis and finding views like yours presented in a twattish idiom you mean?

Your idiom is so wonderful!
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33187
Re: Experiences
« Reply #97 on: April 07, 2016, 06:58:31 PM »
Your idiom is so wonderful!
Wonderful?, I took your contribution to be a pastiche parody of a contribution to a site solicited at the suggestion of Horsethorn where we thought that for once a thread could be free from the usual snipeage.

You are quite within your rights to put what you want, how you want.

Jack Knave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8690
Re: Experiences
« Reply #98 on: April 07, 2016, 07:27:50 PM »
Very interesting #175.

Very modern, with lots of intellectual stuff and then a smattering of the spiritual at the end.

Jack Knave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8690
Re: Experiences
« Reply #99 on: April 07, 2016, 07:39:38 PM »
I have mentioned this 'experience/dream' before, but will relate it again. I don't know when it actually occurred as it has been with me as long as I can remember, which is right back to the cradle.

I was an angel up in heaven (feel free to laugh), when god, who presented as a bright white light, told me it was my turn to do my bit on earth. I protested as I didn't fancy the idea, but ended up down here anyway. No doubt I am now a fallen angel. ;D However, that experience didn't stop me losing my faith.
Wow!!! That speaks volumes...