Are there vile homophobic views on this forum

[Bubbles]

99% of sex is isolated from the act of procreation, if it crops up at all, it's people avoiding procreating.

Most hetrosexuals only try on average for 2 or 3 children in a lifetime

[Gonnagle]

Dear Spud,

What I took from your link, sex, two humans joined in body and soul, so that's nice.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

Dear Spud,

What I took from your link, sex, two humans joined in body and soul, so that's nice.

Gonnagle.

Replace 'soul' with 'love' and I'll agree with you, Gonners.

[Bubbles]

What has that got to do with one man loving another and having sex with him? He is treating him exactly the same as a hetero man treats his wife.

I don't get my love from a text book ... it stems from my heart.

Yes there is this unpleasant assumption that somehow the love between two men is purely physical.

Not true though, as you say , it comes from your heart.

Just like with a hetrosexual couple.

[Leonard James]

Yes there is this unpleasant assumption that somehow the love between two men is purely physical.

Not true though, as you say , it comes from your heart.

Just like with a hetrosexual couple.

I think that is what Willy Waggleweapon had in mind when he put these words into Hamlet's mouth :-

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

Waggleweapon it took me all of five seconds to get it

Gonnagle.

[wigginhall]

Christians like Spud are obsessed with anatomy, so love is not relevant here.   It's a weird kind of Christian reductionism, never mind the heart, where's the willy?

[Leonard James]

Christians like Spud are obsessed with anatomy, so love is not relevant here.   It's a weird kind of Christian reductionism, never mind the heart, where's the willy?

I think it's fair to say that from a man's point of view physical attributes are the first things that attract ... love develops later.

[floo]

Spud

I don't think most heterosexuals are thinking about procreation any of the time during sex.
It only comes up if people want to start a family, which is a very small amount of time in their life.:

Exactly.

[Spud]

Spud

I don't think most heterosexuals are thinking about procreation any of the time during sex.
It only comes up if people want to start a family, which is a very small amount of time in their life.:

Maybe in Protestant countries, yes. I know Protestants tend to allow contraception, which is probably why they are not thinking about procreation. But in accepting contraception their argument against same sex relationships breaks down. Natural family planning, the Catholic alternative, is morally acceptable, catholics say, because no barrier to conception is involved.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Maybe in Protestant countries, yes. I know Protestants tend to allow contraception, which is probably why they are not thinking about procreation. But in accepting contraception their argument against same sex relationships breaks down. Natural family planning, the Catholic alternative, is morally acceptable, catholics say, because no barrier to conception is involved.

So do you think that catholic couples who are practising natural family planning are having sex for pleasure or procreation reasons?

[floo]

Maybe in Protestant countries, yes. I know Protestants tend to allow contraception, which is probably why they are not thinking about procreation. But in accepting contraception their argument against same sex relationships breaks down. Natural family planning, the Catholic alternative, is morally acceptable, catholics say, because no barrier to conception is involved.

The world is OVERPOPULATED therefore it is crazy not to use reliable contraception, which will prevent unwanted pregnancies. I know quite a few Catholics, and none of them have large families so one takes it they have put two fingers up to that crazy doctrine.

[Udayana]

The world is OVERPOPULATED therefore it is crazy not to use reliable contraception, which will prevent unwanted pregnancies. I know quite a few Catholics, and none of them have large families so one takes it they have put two fingers up to that crazy doctrine.

But isn't that a matter of opinion rather than fact? The world doesn't come with a sticker giving the max carrying capacity.

[floo]

But isn't that a matter of opinion rather than fact? The world doesn't come with a sticker giving the max carrying capacity.

But you don't have to be a genius to work out that if people have more children than they can afford to look after, as happens in many underdeveloped countries, it is going to cause big problems like starvation.

[wigginhall]

So do you think that catholic couples who are practising natural family planning are having sex for pleasure or procreation reasons?

I sincerely hope that they are staring at the picture of the Holy Family above the bed, and trying to ignore the furtive scrabblings going on in under the duvet.  God sees all and forgives their lubricity!

[Udayana]

But you don't have to be a genius to work out that if people have more children than they can afford to look after, as happens in many underdeveloped countries, it is going to cause big problems like starvation.

Quite probably, but that is really another discussion.

Spud's opinion is that, essentially, sex is for creating babies, so should be used for that purpose with other variations discouraged.

So the counter argument is that most people want sex but don't want babies, - not that there are too many babies.

[wigginhall]

Yes, that is the curious reductive approach of the Catholic Church, and apparently, Spud.  Let's not start with love, and people loving each other, which you might think was a natural Christian approach.   Let's start with tabs and slots, and which goes where, and which combinations are very very naughty and will send you to the fiery oven.   And I don't mean Gregg's. 

[floo]

One wonders if spud has ever had sex? If he had a sex life he might not be so quick to think it is only useful as a baby making machine.

[Brownie]

The world is OVERPOPULATED therefore it is crazy not to use reliable contraception, which will prevent unwanted pregnancies. I know quite a few Catholics, and none of them have large families so one takes it they have put two fingers up to that crazy doctrine.

You said that before on this thread, floo, and I replied:
Bits of the world floo, there are particular areas that seem to be overpopulated and other areas where the population growth is low and slow.  People will always want to have kids, you and I wouldn't have not wanted to.  Of course in this country most of us don't have six or more as happened in days gone by - but in those days folks often lost children in infancy.

Re: what Spud said about contraception, and the responses, etc:

First of all Spud, there's no such thing as a "Protestant country", or a "Catholic country", only people who live there, many of whom practice a particular religion which seems to be prominent.   

How many Catholics, and I mean practising Catholics, do you know who do not use contraception?  It is a matter for their personal consciences.  The only ones I have ever come across are members of fringe organisations, such as Opus Dei.  They generally have several children. The rest of the Catholic population do not have more than the average, because they use contraception.

Spud, religions are man made, don't forget that.  The Catholic Church bears little resemblance to the church founded by Jesus and the Apostles.  I will even tentatively venture to say the same goes for the Orthodox though no doubt Paul and Jonathan, if they are here, will disagree with me.  There's nothing wrong with that in itself but we have to be aware that the teachings are not written in tablets of stone.

None of this has much to do with the title of this thread but I'm not sorry it's gone off topic a bit.

[Shaker]

Maybe in Protestant countries, yes. I know Protestants tend to allow contraception, which is probably why they are not thinking about procreation. But in accepting contraception their argument against same sex relationships breaks down. Natural family planning, the Catholic alternative, is morally acceptable, catholics say, because no barrier to conception is involved.

You do know of course that there's a special term for couples who follow natural family planning - "mum and dad."

[Spud]

So do you think that catholic couples who are practising natural family planning are having sex for pleasure or procreation reasons?

For pleasure (that is to say, its unifying significance). I'm not convinced that the morality of natural family planning is what the Catholics say it is. One is still depriving a sexual act of its openness to transmission of life. It would surely be morally 'better' to abstain completely until such time as you are open to the possibility of conception?

[Shaker]

Why should people have to abstain?

[Gordon]

For pleasure (that is to say, its unifying significance). I'm not convinced that the morality of natural family planning is what the Catholics say it is. One is still depriving a sexual act of its openness to transmission of life. It would surely be morally 'better' to abstain completely until such time as you are open to the possibility of conception?

Spud

This may shock you, but the RCC has no mandate over sexuality - they can simply be ignored you know.

[Rhiannon]

Hare Krishnas don't have sex unless they definitely want to conceive. The one I knew had a drawer full of sex toys instead.

Incidentally, their top guru chap - whose name was Guru Dave - left his wife for another devotee even though they had never so much as brushed fingertips.

[Bubbles]

Why should people have to abstain?

I guess it's incase they are tempted to take their eyes off the serious  purpose of it, and have a "norty" thought or two.....or three 

They have to lie back and think of procreation