Children and religion

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

It can also cause otherwise intelligent - as well as those less endowed with said intelligence - to act as incredibly idiotic and self-ignoring people in attempts to save the lives of fellow human beings.

Len, its time you stopped stereotyping people of faith, because your claim can be equally applied to those with no religious belief.  The important word in your post is 'can'; this doesn't mean 'does'.

I would agree.

I think if Len replaced religion with strong ideology then I would probably agree with him.

Once the ability to use reasoned arguments is replaced with dogma and arguments from authority is when you have the issue.

It just happens that you are a good example of the religious version re your views about homosexuals.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

True ... but I just want to point out that religious beliefs can prompt some people to treat others cruelly, which they otherwise wouldn't have done. I speak from experience having been on the receiving end.

Yeh but from my POV cruel mocking has come from non believers...........and justified with the same words as you use here.

If any atheist does so out of revenge then what does that say about professing atheism?

[Rhiannon]

The same thing that it does when the religious do it - people can act like dickheads.

[Leonard James]

Yeh but from my POV cruel mocking has come from non believers...........and justified with the same words as you use here.

If any atheist does so out of revenge then what does that say about professing atheism?

Nothing, but it reflects badly on the atheist concerned.

Atheism, unlike religion, doesn't teach a way of life ... it is just a disbelief in the gods that do.

[Hope]

As I have said before, my husband and I felt very strongly about letting our children decide for themselves about religion, we did not force our lack of belief on them. We knew how damaging it was to us that our childhoods had been spoilt by the 'you must be 'saved', or burn in hell', abusive dogma.

In addition to what I've said about this paragraph previously, it would be interesting to know how you allowed your children todecide for themselves - did you talk to them about Christianity or religion as a whole?  Or did you just assume that they'd hear stuff at school or from friends?

[Hope]

Atheism, unlike religion, doesn't teach a way of life ... it is just a disbelief in the gods that do.

Yet, non-belief in a God is, in its own way, a way of life.  An atheist's understanding of the world is based on a totally different set of ideas to someone of faith.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Yet, non-belief in a God is, in its own way, a way of life.  An atheist's understanding of the world is based on a totally different set of ideas to someone of faith.

No.

The only thing you are safe in assuming about someone who says that they are an atheist is that they do not have a belief in any God. For specific views on any particular subject you would have to ask the individual atheist.

e.g. my views on homosexuality seem to be close to those of Brownie and a million miles away from those of you and Spud, yet all three of you call yourselves Christians and I call myself an agnostic atheist.

[Hope]

No.

The only thing you are safe in assuming about someone who says that they are an atheist is that they do not have a belief in any God. For specific views on any particular subject you would have to ask the individual atheist.

But by not having a belief in a God, an atheist's understanding of the universe is necessarily very different to that of someone of faith.  I appreciate that atheists don't want to acknowledge that they have an 'atheist' way of life, but its an unavoidable logic progession.

By the way, what is an agnostic atheist?  Either you don't have a belief in a God and are an atheist; or you are unsure whether there is one or not, and hence an agnostic.

[Shaker]

By the way, what is an agnostic atheist?  Either you don't have a belief in a God and are an atheist; or you are unsure whether there is one or not, and hence an agnostic.

Atheism and agnosticism are discrete terms relating to discrete concepts - namely belief and knowledge (the lack of both, in this specific instance).

This relies on T. H. Huxley's original definition of agnosticism as a method, rather than the modern bastardisation of the term to mean no more than uncertainty.

https://goo.gl/Cxedso

http://goo.gl/HsDLF1

http://goo.gl/kQZQG9

[Leonard James]

Yet, non-belief in a God is, in its own way, a way of life.  An atheist's understanding of the world is based on a totally different set of ideas to someone of faith.

How? My approach to life is to help people if I can and do as little harm as possible to the environment. How does that differ from yours?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

How? My approach to life is to help people if I can and do as little harm as possible to the environment. How does that differ from yours?

I suppose the term atheist can convey an innocuous sort of chap just spreading a little happiness as he goes by. However experience of this forum gives a different picture.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Atheism and agnosticism are discrete terms relating to discrete concepts - namely belief and knowledge (the lack of both, in this specific instance).

This relies on T. H. Huxley's original definition of agnosticism as a method, rather than the modern bastardisation of the term to mean no more than uncertainty.

https://goo.gl/Cxedso

http://goo.gl/HsDLF1

http://goo.gl/kQZQG9

What would you call someone who doesn't know but knows it isn't God?

[Leonard James]

I suppose the term atheist can convey an innocuous sort of chap just spreading a little happiness as he goes by. However experience of this forum gives a different picture.

Of course it does, because people are people regardless of what they believe (or don't believe) ... and people come in all forms, depending entirely on what they draw in the genetic lottery.

[Leonard James]

What would you call someone who doesn't know but knows it isn't God?

Intelligent.

[Brownie]

Thanks for those links, Shaker.  I was particularly interested in ''Freethinker'' which I will peruse at leisure.

The definition of agnostic atheist is what I thought it to be:
Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact.

I understand that position very well and may have labelled myself in that way twenty-five years ago, had I thought of the label!   I have a much respected close relative who is an agnostic atheist.

(I'll be back later with more opinions, for what they're worth, on Children and Religion, something I've been thinking about but need to precis my thoughts.)

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

But by not having a belief in a God, an atheist's understanding of the universe is necessarily very different to that of someone of faith.  I appreciate that atheists don't want to acknowledge that they have an 'atheist' way of life, but its an unavoidable logic progession.

By the way, what is an agnostic atheist?  Either you don't have a belief in a God and are an atheist; or you are unsure whether there is one or not, and hence an agnostic.

What is an 'atheist' way of life?

I am an atheist and I have a way of life. I assume that other atheists also have a way of life.

What we need to know from you is how you can tell what someone's way of life is, if the only information you have about them is that they are an atheist?

Regarding agnostic atheist I see Shaker and Brownie have already addressed this, so hopefully you are now clear on it.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

What is an 'atheist' way of life?

I am an atheist and I have a way of life. I assume that other atheists also have a way of life.

What we need to know from you is how you can tell what someone's way of life is, if the only information you have about them is that they are an atheist?

In keeping with the topic of this thread I assume that you have discussed atheism with you children at some point? Did you tell them that there was an atheist way of life?

Regarding agnostic atheist I see Shaker and Brownie have already addressed this, so hopefully you are now clear on it.

[Bubbles]

An atheist way of life is one that doesn't follow the rituals and live by the religious year.

Although I'm not an Atheist, I would say much of my life is an "atheist way of life."

My Christian friends life is punctuated with seasons and the bible is followed seasonally and she regularly attends church.

An atheist could follow it and give up things for lent, but is there any point? Other than giving to charity and joining in a religious community.

An atheist lifestyle doesn't put religion or I should say God in its priorities, whereas a religious one does.

A Muslim prays so many times a day, no atheist is going to bother 

Well if they did, I'd wonder why 

 

[Leonard James]

A Muslim prays so many times a day, no atheist is going to bother 

Well if they did, I'd wonder why 

Atheists don't pray, they don't have anything to pray to!

I'm assuming that by 'pray' you mean addressing some god or other.

[Bubbles]

Atheists don't pray, they don't have anything to pray to!

I'm assuming that by 'pray' you mean addressing some god or other.

Yes.

 

[Gordon]

But by not having a belief in a God, an atheist's understanding of the universe is necessarily very different to that of someone of faith.  I appreciate that atheists don't want to acknowledge that they have an 'atheist' way of life, but its an unavoidable logic progession.

By the way, what is an agnostic atheist?  Either you don't have a belief in a God and are an atheist; or you are unsure whether there is one or not, and hence an agnostic.

You've been told this before, and often, but you seem determined to portray atheism as a belief system that is somehow akin to a religion: it isn't, and is simply an absence of belief in all and any Gods. The agnostic element indicates no more than that the absence of said belief isn't made on the basis of claiming knowledge, and in my case is primarily because the notion of 'God' is incoherent and meaningless and all the arguments offered by 'believers' are inherently fallacious.

Put simply, in terms of my outlook, my lack of belief in Gods has exactly the same impact as my lack of belief that Glasgow will shortly be overrun by flying purple kangaroos: both are ridiculous notions that, as things stand, have no merit to start with and, so, they can be dismissed as being fanciful fantasy that only the highly credulous would give house-room to. 

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

An atheist way of life is one that doesn't follow the rituals and live by the religious year.

Although I'm not an Atheist, I would say much of my life is an "atheist way of life."

My Christian friends life is punctuated with seasons and the bible is followed seasonally and she regularly attends church.

An atheist could follow it and give up things for lent, but is there any point? Other than giving to charity and joining in a religious community.

Certainly there is a point to fasting and giving things up. I do it. It helps me stay in shape, reminds me that I was lucky to be born at the time and place that I was. plus when you can have the things again, you appreciate them more.

My point is that you couldn't have known whether I have periods of denying myself things by only knowing that I am an atheist.

An atheist lifestyle doesn't put religion or I should say God in its priorities, whereas a religious one does.

But what does that mean in practice? What does it tell you about how an atheist lives their life.

A Muslim prays so many times a day, no atheist is going to bother 

Well if they did, I'd wonder why 

If you think that atheists don't follow rituals then I suggest you come along with me on a Tuesday evening to meditation classes run by Buddhists. You will find lot's of people who follow rituals, the seasons, and whilst not exactly praying, they are in very deep contemplation. Lot's of them would identify as atheists, even some of the Buddhists, although they normally refer to themselves more as non-theists.

And then you can probably find atheists who do absolutely non of those things.

[Leonard James]

And then you can probably find atheists who do absolutely non of those things.

Like me, for example! 

[floo]

It can also cause otherwise intelligent - as well as those less endowed with said intelligence - to act as incredibly idiotic and self-ignoring people in attempts to save the lives of fellow human beings.

Len, its time you stopped stereotyping people of faith, because your claim can be equally applied to those with no religious belief.  The important word in your post is 'can'; this doesn't mean 'does'.

What do you mean by, 'save the lives of other human beings'?

[Brownie]

I didn't know you had to believe in God to work for the Red Cross.