Author Topic: More about the unconscious mind....  (Read 2323 times)

Sriram

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More about the unconscious mind....
« on: April 18, 2016, 04:04:19 PM »
Hi everyone,

Here is a Science Daily article about how complex ideas can enter consciousness automatically.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160414095549.htm

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New research provides further evidence for 'passive frame theory,' the groundbreaking idea that suggests human consciousness is less in control than previously believed. The study shows that even complex concepts, such as translating a word into pig latin, can enter your consciousness automatically,.....

This surprising effect offers further evidence that the contents of our consciousness -- the state of being awake and aware of our surroundings -- are often generated involuntarily, said Morsella, an assistant professor of psychology.

"Our study reveals that unintentional, unconscious processes can be more sophisticated than what has been thought before."

Morsella said the study provides more support for the passive frame theory that he proposed along with his colleagues last year, a potentially groundbreaking idea that suggests consciousness is more of a conduit for information in the brain rather than an active creator of information.

He compared consciousness to an interpreter or a format like the Internet. "If you're arguing with someone over the internet, you need the internet," but it isn't doing any of the arguing or resolving the argument.

"By itself, consciousness, like a window, doesn't actually do that much," he added, "but what it provides for other, more active (and unconscious) systems is essential."

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For information.

Cheers.

Sriram

Shaker

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 04:08:47 PM »
Alan 'Free Will' Burns won't like it!  :o
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Brownie

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 06:42:03 PM »
I don't know about that, it seems fairly obvious to me.  Happens to everyone.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

wigginhall

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 06:47:55 PM »
I'm not sure how this is a new idea.  Depth psychology had argued this a 100 years ago, and before that, Nietzsche also.   It then became one of the key ideas in modernism, that is, in the new century (20th), and influenced art, cinema, literature, and so on.   And of course, the psychological disciplines. 

Interesting book, 'The Discovery of the Unconscious', Ellenberger, 1970. 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 06:50:52 PM by wigginhall »
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Shaker

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 09:33:52 PM »
Slightly tangentially, reminds me that Freud said that he laboured long and hard for years gathering the material that became the edifice of psychoanalysis, only to find that Nietzsche got there first fifty-odd years earlier.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sriram

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 05:17:03 PM »


Hi everyone,

We now know  that the unconscious mind plays a major role in our day to day life....including our decision making, forecasting, health, placebo effect....and probably much more. 

We have no idea what the  nature of the unconscious mind is and how it works. It is not just a storehouse of repressed memories as was previously thought.

All these influences happen automatically without the intervention of the conscious mind.   

So...when people realize or suspect that there is some unknown force acting behind the scenes from within our mind... and that 'we' (the conscious mind) are not the active doer....they are not wrong. There really is an unknown consciousness using the conscious mind as a window while actively participating in the world. We (the conscious mind) just believe that we are doing everything.

Cheers.

Sriram


Brownie

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 06:00:11 PM »
This thread is really complimentary to the one on the MIND course.
I believe that God exists in the unconscious.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Maeght

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 06:28:35 PM »

Hi everyone,

We now know  that the unconscious mind plays a major role in our day to day life....including our decision making, forecasting, health, placebo effect....and probably much more. 

We have no idea what the  nature of the unconscious mind is and how it works. It is not just a storehouse of repressed memories as was previously thought.

All these influences happen automatically without the intervention of the conscious mind.   

So...when people realize or suspect that there is some unknown force acting behind the scenes from within our mind... and that 'we' (the conscious mind) are not the active doer....they are not wrong. There really is an unknown consciousness using the conscious mind as a window while actively participating in the world. We (the conscious mind) just believe that we are doing everything.

Cheers.

Sriram

The OP article seems to make sense to me. Not sure I'd agree with your interpretation though Sriram. An unknown force? An unknown consciousness? The 'force' is the influence of the processes taking place in the subconscious part of brain, which is all part of the 'we' surely.

Sriram

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 03:09:53 PM »
This thread is really complimentary to the one on the MIND course.
I believe that God exists in the unconscious.

Well....yes. God is a big 'unknown' in which the unconscious mind would also be a part.

My point is that 'God' may or may not  intervene in our day to day affairs, but the unconscious mind certainly does. It directs, decides, heals, guides and helps in every which way. And this is something we all can and should be able to sense and identify. 

So...how are spiritualists and religious folk wrong when they sense an 'unseen hand' in their lives?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 03:12:16 PM by Sriram »

Sriram

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 03:11:07 PM »
The OP article seems to make sense to me. Not sure I'd agree with your interpretation though Sriram. An unknown force? An unknown consciousness? The 'force' is the influence of the processes taking place in the subconscious part of brain, which is all part of the 'we' surely.


You don't understand the unconscious mind any more than I do. And I don't agree with your simplistic interpretation any more than you do with mine.  :)

Maeght

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2016, 03:16:25 PM »

You don't understand the unconscious mind any more than I do. And I don't agree with your simplistic interpretation any more than you do with mine.  :)

The scientific evidence points to activity in the sub conscious mind. We don't fully understand how the brain works, and I've never claimed to, but our knowledge is increasing all the time. There is no evidence of an external force or unknown consciousness influencing the sub conscious mind so to imagine there is is just fanciful and, I would say, much more simplistic than recognising the incredibly complicated and sophiticated mechanisms of the brain.

By the way, I went to a lecture on the Evolution of the Human Brian last night - fascinating stuff.

ippy

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2016, 03:42:14 PM »
Unknown so it must be god, yes, well Sriram don't let it worry you too much.

ippy 

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2016, 06:26:50 PM »
Unknown so it must be god,

ippy
How is that worse than your ''unknown so it can't be God''?

Maeght

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2016, 06:27:56 PM »
Who says that?

Shaker

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2016, 06:43:12 PM »
How is that worse than your ''unknown so it can't be God''?
Neither are as bad as "How would we be able to tell if it's a god or not?" followed by *crickets* *tumbleweed*
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sriram

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2016, 11:40:49 AM »


Hi everyone,

'God' is  a word that evokes different reactions from different people. I am avoiding using it in this context.

My point is that,there is sufficient evidence for a hidden part of our mind that we are not aware of and which decides, directs and plans our life. Our conscious mind being only a window or a front office for this huge and powerful workshop. Freud has mentioned that  consciousness is like a iceberg with most of it hidden below the surface. 

This is what billions of people around the world sense as their inner mind and as a superior force directing them from within. Many people believe in destiny and the unseen hand of a supreme intelligence. All this is now fairly well accounted for through the unconscious mind.

Of course, it is not known what exactly this unconscious mind is, how large it is, how many levels it has, to what extent networked and connected to all other people and to the planet as a whole.... and so on. We have a long way to go before we begin to understand all that...if at all.

Cheers.

Sriram
 

torridon

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2016, 11:59:07 AM »

Hi everyone,

'God' is  a word that evokes different reactions from different people. I am avoiding using it in this context.

My point is that,there is sufficient evidence for a hidden part of our mind that we are not aware of and which decides, directs and plans our life. Our conscious mind being only a window or a front office for this huge and powerful workshop. Freud has mentioned that  consciousness is like a iceberg with most of it hidden below the surface. 

There are very good reasons why the vast majority of mind function is below the hood.  When we practice to learn a skill, we are training our subconscious mind so that we can achieve that skill without the cost of forever allocating expensive conscious resources to it. I can drive my car now without having to consciously think about which pedal is which or where reverse gear is.  My body just seems to know it now. When we are born we come into this life with a whole range of subconscious skills already pre-learned.  How hard would it be to write this post now if I was having to remember to beat my heart every second.  I'd never get anything done if I was having to focus on my blood glucose or my insulin levels. Our bodies work on autopilot in most respects, freeing up resources for the higher cognitive functions that particularly characterise us; this is why the vast majority of mind function is subconscious, it frees up cognitive resources on a priority basis.

This is what billions of people around the world sense as their inner mind and as a superior force directing them from within. Many people believe in destiny and the unseen hand of a supreme intelligence. All this is now fairly well accounted for through the unconscious mind.

Or that could be just cognitive biases, a legacy of historic pathways in the development of human mind.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 12:01:32 PM by torridon »

Sriram

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2016, 01:03:13 PM »
There are very good reasons why the vast majority of mind function is below the hood.  When we practice to learn a skill, we are training our subconscious mind so that we can achieve that skill without the cost of forever allocating expensive conscious resources to it. I can drive my car now without having to consciously think about which pedal is which or where reverse gear is.  My body just seems to know it now. When we are born we come into this life with a whole range of subconscious skills already pre-learned.  How hard would it be to write this post now if I was having to remember to beat my heart every second.  I'd never get anything done if I was having to focus on my blood glucose or my insulin levels. Our bodies work on autopilot in most respects, freeing up resources for the higher cognitive functions that particularly characterise us; this is why the vast majority of mind function is subconscious, it frees up cognitive resources on a priority basis.

Or that could be just cognitive biases, a legacy of historic pathways in the development of human mind.


We have discussed this earlier.

Automatic responses cannot be classified as part of the unconscious mind.  They are not really unconscious...they are just automatic.  We are aware of our eating or driving or walking and we can  intervene at any time  to change it. 

Body functions like breathing, heart beats, chemical reactions etc are also automatic biological responses though I agree that we are normally unaware of them.

We can easily dismiss the unconscious mind as 'just this' and 'just that' and as just an appendage to the conscious mind....as we have done for many decades. Or we can take it seriously as something much more complex and profound than we have imagined.....(as Science is beginning to find out).   

The latter will not only help us in understanding some of the more mysterious aspects of our personality without pushing them into the closet ......it will also help in bridging the gap between  what billions of people believe as important in their lives... and what science is able to deliver.

torridon

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2016, 01:17:35 PM »

We have discussed this earlier.

Automatic responses cannot be classified as part of the unconscious mind.  They are not really unconscious...they are just automatic. 

That is the same thing.  That we are unaware of them is what defines them as part of the subconscious mind rather than conscious mind.  It is the subconscious mind that really takes care of business. Without it we would be dead in minutes.  Conscious mind is just the froth on top.

ippy

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2016, 01:33:32 PM »
How is that worse than your ''unknown so it can't be God''?

Vlad even you know better than that, unknown so let's find out whatever it may be, now that is much better than the lazy and regerssive approach, unknown so it must be a goddit.

ippy

Maeght

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Re: More about the unconscious mind....
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2016, 01:42:46 PM »
That is the same thing.  That we are unaware of them is what defines them as part of the subconscious mind rather than conscious mind.  It is the subconscious mind that really takes care of business. Without it we would be dead in minutes.  Conscious mind is just the froth on top.

Yes, the article is simply talking about the influence of the sub conscious brain on the apparently conscious decisions/actions we take. It's not talking about some third mysterious unknown consciousness.