After The Fall

[newnature]

A figure of speech relates to the form in which the words are used. It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is said. In Genesis chapter three, we have neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of certain figures of speech. When Satan is spoken of as a ‘serpent’, it is the figure Hypocatastasis or Implication. An implied resemblance or representation.

Other figures of speech are used in Genesis 3:14-15, but only for the same purpose of emphasizing the truth and the reality of what is said. “Thou shalt bruise his heel”, it cannot mean his literal heel of flesh and blood, but suffering, more temporary in character. 


“He shall crush thy head”, it means something more than a skull of bone, and brain, and hair. It means that all Satan’s plans and plots, policy and purposes, will one day be finally crushed and ended, never more to mar or to hinder the purposes of God. 


This will be effected when Satan shall be bruised under our feet (Romans 16:20). This, again, will not be our literal feet, but something much more real. The bruising of Christ’s heel is the most eloquent and impressive way of foretelling the most solemn events; and to point out that the effort made by Satan to evade his doom, then threatened, would become the very means of insuring its accomplishment; for it was through the death of Christ that he who had the power of death would be destroyed; and all Satan’ power and policy brought to an end, and all his works destroyed.

The history of Genesis chapter three is intended to teach us the fact that Satan’s sphere of activities is in the religious sphere, and not the spheres of crime or immorality; that his battlefield is not the sins arising from human depravity, but the unbelief of the human heart. We are not to look for Satan’s activities today in the newspaper press, or the police courts; but in the pulpit, and in professors’ chairs. Whenever the Word of God is called in question, there we see the trail of that old serpent?

Genesis 3:14-15 - What literal words could portray these literal facts so wonderfully as these expressive figures of speech? It is the same with the other figures used in versus 14, “On thy belly shalt thou go”. This figure means infinitely more than the literal belly of flesh and blood. It paints for the eyes of our mind the picture of Satan’s ultimate humiliation; for prostration was ever the most eloquent sign of subjection. Ps. 44:25 denotes such a prolonged prostration and such a depth of submission as could never be conveyed or expressed in literal words.

[~TW~]

A figure of speech relates to the form in which the words are used. It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is said. In Genesis chapter three, we have neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of certain figures of speech. When Satan is spoken of as a ‘serpent’, it is the figure Hypocatastasis or Implication. An implied resemblance or representation.

Other figures of speech are used in Genesis 3:14-15, but only for the same purpose of emphasizing the truth and the reality of what is said. “Thou shalt bruise his heel”, it cannot mean his literal heel of flesh and blood, but suffering, more temporary in character. 


“He shall crush thy head”, it means something more than a skull of bone, and brain, and hair. It means that all Satan’s plans and plots, policy and purposes, will one day be finally crushed and ended, never more to mar or to hinder the purposes of God. 


This will be effected when Satan shall be bruised under our feet (Romans 16:20). This, again, will not be our literal feet, but something much more real. The bruising of Christ’s heel is the most eloquent and impressive way of foretelling the most solemn events; and to point out that the effort made by Satan to evade his doom, then threatened, would become the very means of insuring its accomplishment; for it was through the death of Christ that he who had the power of death would be destroyed; and all Satan’ power and policy brought to an end, and all his works destroyed.

The history of Genesis chapter three is intended to teach us the fact that Satan’s sphere of activities is in the religious sphere, and not the spheres of crime or immorality; that his battlefield is not the sins arising from human depravity, but the unbelief of the human heart. We are not to look for Satan’s activities today in the newspaper press, or the police courts; but in the pulpit, and in professors’ chairs. Whenever the Word of God is called in question, there we see the trail of that old serpent?

Genesis 3:14-15 - What literal words could portray these literal facts so wonderfully as these expressive figures of speech? It is the same with the other figures used in versus 14, “On thy belly shalt thou go”. This figure means infinitely more than the literal belly of flesh and blood. It paints for the eyes of our mind the picture of Satan’s ultimate humiliation; for prostration was ever the most eloquent sign of subjection. Ps. 44:25 denotes such a prolonged prostration and such a depth of submission as could never be conveyed or expressed in literal words.

Thank you { R}  look forward to lots more from you.

 and welcome
                               ~TW~

[newnature]

But for the figurative language of verses 14 and 15 no one would have thought of referring the third chapter of Genesis to a snake; no more than he does when reading the third chapter from the end of Revelation (ch. 20:2). Indeed, the explanation added there, that the “old serpent” is the Devil and Satan, would immediately lead one to connect the word “old” with the earlier and former mention of the serpent in Genesis chapter 3; and the fact that it was Satan himself who tempted “the second man”, “the last Adam”, would force the conclusion that no other than the personal Satan could have been the tempter of “the first man, Adam”.

[floo]

Much of the Bible is not historical especially the creation myth!

[Hope]

NN, it should be noted that the language, phraseology and even terminology used in the first 11 chapters of Genesis differ dramatically from that used in chapters 12 and following.  This suggests that we need to take Genesis as more than just a single entity, and Biblical scholars are increasingly suggesting that, as the language better reflects Jewish usage of the 5th and 6th centuries BCE, we need to consider whether Genesis 1-11 is less a historical record and more of a theological treatise written shortly after the Jewish return from exile in Babylon explaining how and why the Jewish God differs and is more powerful than the Babylonian gods that they would have had contact with for the previous years (and possibly come to regard as worth worshipping).

[Hope]

Much of the Bible is not historical especially the creation myth!

It isn't a myth, Floo; its a theological treatise.

[floo]

It isn't a myth, Floo; its a theological treatise.

A lot of it is very silly nonsense. Making out poor old Satan to be the bad guy is very unfair when god is so very evil, if the deeds attributed to it were factual.

[newnature]

NN, it should be noted that the language, phraseology and even terminology used in the first 11 chapters of Genesis differ dramatically from that used in chapters 12 and following.  This suggests that we need to take Genesis as more than just a single entity, and Biblical scholars are increasingly suggesting that, as the language better reflects Jewish usage of the 5th and 6th centuries BCE, we need to consider whether Genesis 1-11 is less a historical record and more of a theological treatise written shortly after the Jewish return from exile in Babylon explaining how and why the Jewish God differs and is more powerful than the Babylonian gods that they would have had contact with for the previous years (and possibly come to regard as worth worshipping).

Let’s look at the beginning of Genesis, “And” is the figure of speech Polysyndeton or Many Ands. The repetition of the word “and” at the beginning of successive clauses, each independent, important, and emphatic, with no climax at the end. 34 verses of this introduction, each one of 102 separate acts is emphasized; and the important word “God” in versus 1 is carried like a lamp through the whole of this Introduction. 


“The earth” is the figure of speech Anadiplosis or Like sentence endings and beginnings. The word or words concluding one sentence are repeated at the beginning of another. 


“Without form” the Hebrew word is ‘tohu va bohu’ and is the figure of speech Paronomasia or Rhyming words. The repetition of words similar in sound,  but not necessarily in sense. Without form, one of the Hebrew words is ‘tohu’ and is used as a subsequent event. Not created ‘tohu’ (Isa. 45:18), but became ‘tohu’ (2 Pet. 3:5-6). The other word is ‘bohu’ and is rendered “void”, means desolate. The two words together occur in Gen. 1:2a; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23. 


“Face” in Genesis 1:2a is the figure Pleonasm or Redundancy. Where what is said is, immediately after, put in another or opposite way to make it impossible for the sense to be missed.

In Genesis 1:2a, the two verbs ‘was’ should be the verb ‘to become’. The Revisers ill-advisedly decided that “all such words, now printed in italics, as are plainly implied in the Hebrew, and necessary in English, be printed in common type. One of the consequences of this decision is that the verb “to be” is not distinguished from the verb “to become”, so that the lessons conveyed are lost.

[Leonard James]

It isn't a myth, Floo; its a theological treatise.

The creation story at least is myth. No just, loving power would punish future generations for a sin which Adam and Eve committed.

[newnature]

Much of the Bible is not historical especially the creation myth!

Genesis shouldn't have happened.

[newnature]

It isn't a myth, Floo; its a theological treatise.

The Nachash, or serpent, who beguiled Eve (2 Cor. 11:3) is spoken of as “an angel of light” in v.14. Have we not, in this, a clear intimation that it was not a snake, but a being of glorious aspect, apparently an angel, to whom Eve paid such great deference, acknowledging him as one who seemed to possess superior knowledge, and who was evidently a being of a superior (not of an inferior) order?

[newnature]

A lot of it is very silly nonsense. Making out poor old Satan to be the bad guy is very unfair when god is so very evil, if the deeds attributed to it were factual.

The word “beast” does not say that either a serpent or Satan was a “beast”, but only that he was “more wise” than any other living being. We cannot conceive Eve as holding converse with a snake, but we can understand her being fascinated by one, apparently “an angel of light” possessing superior and supernatural knowledge. When Satan is spoken of as a “serpent”, it is the figure Hypocatastasie or Implication; it no more means a snake than it does when when Herod is called a “fox” or when Judah is called “a lion’s whelp”. It is the same figure when “doctrine” is called “leaven” (Matt. 16:6). It shows that something much more real and truer to truth is intended. If a figure of speech is thus employed, it is for the purpose of expressing the truth more impressively; and is intended to be a figure of something much more real than the letter of the word.

[Stranger]

I'm still waiting for the punchline...

Lots of words, newnature, but what is your point?

[newnature]

The creation story at least is myth. No just, loving power would punish future generations for a sin which Adam and Eve committed.

Adam and Eve had childlike innocents, but after eating of that tree. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. It is the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like and having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.

[newnature]

I'm still waiting for the punchline...

Lots of words, newnature, but what is your point?

We know that God did indeed create some kind of structure around him, because he went to the north side of that structure and laid the north side of it over the empty place that is outside of that structure. It is in the north of the north of that new addition to that structure, that God established a different throne to sit on, because his throne (the Ark) is in the tent that God pitched in the north of the north also. Job 26:7 also shows that God hanged the earth not on anything in the middle of this new structure. 


Did God create gold (Ezekiel 28:13)? As God and his fellow travelers rested from their journey, a day is like 10,000 years to God. When God created the earth, what was created? Earth’s core and the plates floating on the core. Did God create mountains? The earth makes it’s own mountains. A day is like 10,000 years to God, and they indeed took a long rest. The earth made the gold, but in order for God to mine gold, he would have to have legs and arms in order to swing a pick. The figure of speech called Anthropopatheia or Condescension means ascribing of Human Attributes, etc., to God. God, by using this figure, condescends to the infirmity of man.

[Stranger]

We know that God did indeed create some kind of structure around him...

No, we don't.

..., because he went to the north side of that structure...

[blah, blah, blah]

Still waiting.     

[newnature]

No, we don't.

Still waiting.     

Now at one point in time in God’s life, he chose to create some kind of structure that separated him from the empty place outside of that structure. But God was not alone, because God rode around on a kind of throne chariot. God’s enthroned above four magnificent creatures. Each of these has a human body and then four faces: the face of a human, the face of a lion, the face of an ox, and the face of an eagle. These 4 magnificent creatures have the same kind of eternal life that God has within himself, but what these magnificent creatures bodies are made of, is unclear. Not only were these 4 magnificent creatures with God, but there were 24 other individuals with God.

These 24 individuals are named Elders and they also have the same kind of eternal life that God has within himself, but these Elders have that eternal life in some kind of flesh and bone body. Now God’s body is different then these 24 Elders and these 4 magnificent creatures. God is a spirit being, meaning his body is composed of a substance called spirit. God also has a unique kind of life within that body composed of that substance called spirit, but the eternal life God has within himself produces some kind of light (His glory).

[bluehillside Retd.]

new,

We know that God did indeed create some kind of structure around him...

Who's "we"? Perhaps if you stepped back a little and demonstrated this "God" in the first place you'd have a platform from which to discuss his thoughts and doings, and who knows - maybe the Templeton prize too!

[bluehillside Retd.]

new,

Now at one point in time in God’s life, he chose to create some kind of structure that separated him from the empty place outside of that structure. But God was not alone, because God rode around on a kind of throne chariot. God’s enthroned above four magnificent creatures. Each of these has a human body and then four faces: the face of a human, the face of a lion, the face of an ox, and the face of an eagle. These 4 magnificent creatures have the same kind of eternal life that God has within himself, but what these magnificent creatures bodies are made of, is unclear. Not only were these 4 magnificent creatures with God, but there were 24 other individuals with God.

These 24 individuals are named Elders and they also have the same kind of eternal life that God has within himself, but these Elders have that eternal life in some kind of flesh and bone body. Now God’s body is different then these 24 Elders and these 4 magnificent creatures. God is a spirit being, meaning his body is composed of a substance called spirit. God also has a unique kind of life within that body composed of that substance called spirit, but the eternal life God has within himself produces some kind of light (His glory).

Are you a person or some kind of random word generator? If the former, I hear that Ryman's have a sale on green ink this week - better hurry!

[Stranger]

Now at one point in time in God’s life, he chose to create some kind of structure that separated him from the empty place outside of that structure. But God was not alone, because God rode around on a kind of throne chariot. God’s enthroned above four magnificent creatures. Each of these has a human body and then four faces: the face of a human, the face of a lion, the face of an ox, and the face of an eagle. These 4 magnificent creatures have the same kind of eternal life that God has within himself, but what these magnificent creatures bodies are made of, is unclear. Not only were these 4 magnificent creatures with God, but there were 24 other individuals with God.

These 24 individuals are named Elders and they also have the same kind of eternal life that God has within himself, but these Elders have that eternal life in some kind of flesh and bone body. Now God’s body is different then these 24 Elders and these 4 magnificent creatures. God is a spirit being, meaning his body is composed of a substance called spirit. God also has a unique kind of life within that body composed of that substance called spirit, but the eternal life God has within himself produces some kind of light (His glory).

Clearly you love your mythology (and typing a lot of words) but I still haven't detected the hint of any point to all this storytelling.
 

[newnature]

new,

Who's "we"? Perhaps if you stepped back a little and demonstrated this "God" in the first place you'd have a platform from which to discuss his thoughts and doings, and who knows - maybe the Templeton prize too!

We who study Genesis. Genesis shouldn't have happened. Why is the earth flooded out in Genesis 1:1?

[Stranger]

We who study Genesis. Genesis shouldn't have happened. Why is the earth flooded out in Genesis 1:1?

A lot of Genesis clearly didn't happen; the flood being a case in point.

[newnature]

new,

Are you a person or some kind of random word generator? If the former, I hear that Ryman's have a sale on green ink this week - better hurry!

We who do word studies knows about the north.

Isaiah 14:13 - The north, this helps us to localize the dwelling place of God.

Psalms 75:6 - It comes not from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south, therefore promotion comes from the north. The immediate place of God’s throne, to which Lucifer aspires. 


Job 26:7 - In order to stretch out the north over the empty place, there has to be a structure in place separating whatever is inside it from the empty place outside of it.

[newnature]

Clearly you love your mythology (and typing a lot of words) but I still haven't detected the hint of any point to all this storytelling.

If a serpent was afterward called a nachash, it was because it exercised fascination over other creatures, and if it became known as “wise”, it was not because of its own innate positive knowledge, but of its wisdom in hiding away from all observation; and because of its association with one of the names of Satan (that old serpent) who “beguiled Eve” (2 Corh. 11:3-11).

[newnature]

A lot of Genesis clearly didn't happen; the flood being a case in point.

Genesis happen. Genesis shouldn't have happen, but it did happen.