When did the Christian mission...

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

Yes I would kind of agree that religion, all religion is storytelling, fascinating story us humans and a big part of us is religion, been with us since, well I was going to say, since we first stepped out of the caves but in the light of Nearly Sanes thread regarding monkeys performing religious rituals, it has probably been with us even longer, we are and it is a fact, a religious animal.

But Owlswing and Albert Einstein are both right,

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

There needs to be someone watching science and asking, hang on are you absolutely sure about this, sadly with splitting the atom, Pandora's box was opened, it is what man does with the finding of science that needs to be scrutinised.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

There needs to be someone watching science and asking, hang on are you absolutely sure about this, sadly with splitting the atom, Pandora's box was opened, it is what man does with the finding of science that needs to be scrutinised.

Gonnagle.
[/quote]

Scientists themselves do this. They are always testing and modifying their theories.

Religion never does, it was just a blind alley that served its purpose in former times, but had no place in the modern world.

[jeremyp]

Hmm..  but where did Christianity originate from?

Palestine or near by.

Was it fully fledged before it became the state religion of the Roman Empire?

Yes.

The answer is still yes, even if you are one of the people who believe it was invented by Constantine or Eusebius.

Was it honed over the centuries to fit Hellenistic musings

Christianity started out hellenistic. It's a syncretism of Greek mystery cults with Judaism.

[Stranger]

You tell me something in the mis-begotten world that is consistent - apart, of course, from the inherent duplicity of politicians.

Death and gravity.

Balance - praying that some bloody scientist doesn't find a way of "understanding the universe" by which, all un-knowing, he destroys the Earth and humanity with it!

Do you think praying will help?

Science has not "consistently encourage(d) good behaviour...

I didn't say it had - I was trying to understand why thought some sort of balance between science and religion was needed.

[Stranger]

There needs to be someone watching science and asking, hang on are you absolutely sure about this, sadly with splitting the atom, Pandora's box was opened, it is what man does with the finding of science that needs to be scrutinised.

Why do you think religion is any good at doing that?

[jeremyp]

Christianity answers two questions do I need a redeemer and can I redeem myself?

Anyone who doesn't ask those questions at some stage isn't fully functional in my opinion.

Anybody who answers them in the affirmative isn't fully functional in my opinion.

[jeremyp]

If this is not  when was it?

Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire in 380CE under the rule of Theodosius I.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

I see two questions in your post.

 

They are always testing and modifying their theories.

Of course they are, but that is not what Owlswing, me, or Albert Einstein are talking about,

"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."

The way I see it, scientists relentlessly pursue, they don't stop and say, bugger that, I am not going down that path, what if some madman gets a hold of this knowledge, scientists are human, they don't suddenly lose all their human failings when they gain their PHD and one of those human failings is stupidity.

The other question is,

Religion never does, it was just a blind alley that served its purpose in former times, but had no place in the modern world.

Religion has no place in modern times, O'Riley, I will now write to the CoS, the RC, CoE, Barnado's, Sally Ann and tell them to pack their bags, their services are no longer required, the government will now foot the bill for all the wonderful work they do.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

Why do you think religion is any good at doing that?

They have been doing it for a very long time, some good, some bad, religion, all religions at its base deals with all of man's failings, greed, hatred, man's inhumanity to man, and yes before I am jumped upon, they have also been the cause.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

Actually as I think about it, did someone mention balance and checks, was this what wee Albert was talking about.

Someone has to watch but who is watching the ones doing the watching, what the hell am I talking about, I blame Farmer

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

They have been doing it for a very long time, some good, some bad, religion, all religions at its base deals with all of man's failings, greed, hatred, man's inhumanity to man, and yes before I am jumped upon, they have also been the cause.

Yes, they have - that's the point; some religion has affected some people positively, but then again, some religion has affected some people negativity and has caused great harm. So why do you think religion is any good at being a balance to anything?

Actually as I think about it, did someone mention balance and checks, was this what wee Albert was talking about.

I haven't a clue what he was talking about; do you?

[wigginhall]

Christianity answers two questions do I need a redeemer and can I redeem myself?

Anyone who doesn't ask those questions at some stage isn't fully functional in my opinion.

And that's why it isn't just another story but one of the great world views.

I think Christianity found a solution, and then had to work out what the problem was.  Well, I guess it's OK to work backwards, why not, it's just that there are different versions of the problem.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

Great harm, great good, sorry but we have been down this road before, what did the Romans ever do for us, or Christianity or any other major religion, I say, we abolished Slavery, you say, yeah who started it.

All I am saying is someone has to watch, religion is doing the watching, asking the questions, of course as I try to get my head around evolution, science is also watching religion, and so it should, you can't read about evolution without someone having a dig at the fundies.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

All I am saying is someone has to watch, religion is doing the watching, asking the questions

It's not the asking of the questions I mind but the basis for the answers it comes up with that I have a problem with.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Shaker,

Exactly ( if I understand you correctly ) the same can be said about religion, just because you become a Priest, Holy Father, Minister, Vicar, Imam mean that the stupidity gene is removed, their motivations for asking need to be questioned.

Gonnagle.

[Hope]

It is sad that religion has led humanity down a blind alley ... wasting time and effort which could have been spent on scientific investigation.

Until very recently, it was the religious - clergy, imams, monks & nuns, etc. - who were the leaders in scientific investigation, LJ.  Perhaps you would rather that no scientific development had taken place until atheism reared its head.

[Shaker]

Until very recently, it was the religious - clergy, imams, monks & nuns, etc. - who were the leaders in scientific investigation, LJ.  Perhaps you would rather that no scientific development had taken place until atheism reared its head.

Atheism reared its head a very long time ago indeed. The ancient Greeks did science, or didn't you realise?

[Hope]

Science is a way of understanding the universe we find ourselves in and religion is storytelling. In what way do you create a balance between understanding and fiction?

Possibly by accepting that scientists will often use logical reasoning processes to extrapolate from certain evidence, which some years, decades, even centuries later are found to have been untrue: in other words, scientific 'stories' have grown up around the thinking.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

Well yes, the old what did the romans ever do for us argument, I have been told/read that Islam was once the very seat of scientific discovery, a golden time when all faiths got together to further scientific understanding.

But someone is sure to say, yeah! what about the crusades, what about slavery being mentioned in the Bible, old argument, even older than our very own Leonard

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

Possibly by accepting that scientists will often use logical reasoning processes to extrapolate from certain evidence, which some years, decades, even centuries later are found to have been untrue: in other words, scientific 'stories' have grown up around the thinking.

I'm unsure what you mean, can you give an example?

[edit:]

PS and how would/could/does religion provide a "balance"?

[Hope]

Part of the Christian mission was and is the total destruction of all other religions - Thou shalt have no other God but me!

Actually, Owlswing, this is untrue.  For one thing, you quote a Jewish maxim, suggesting that the mission you refer to is the mission of Judaism.  But even then you are mistaken, because the instruction was to the Jewish people and those who might want to align themselves with the Jews.  It wasn't a global instruction.   

The mission of Christianity is to inform people that there is one way to God, namely through Jesus' death and resurrection.  It doesn't require people to become a believer; rather it gives them the choice to do so.

[Hope]

No. Try again.

'Vice versa' depends on which perspective you start with, Shakes.  After all, there are those who have been brought up outside of any religious context who have converted from that understanding in adulthood.

[Shaker]

The mission of Christianity is to inform people that there is one way to God, namely through Jesus' death and resurrection. It doesn't require people to become a believer; rather it gives them the choice to do so.

Nice when people are given the choice, isn't it?

[Hope]

Scientists themselves do this. They are always testing and modifying their theories.

Sometimes detrimentally, LJ.  Science may be unbiased, but scientists aren't always.

Religion never does, it was just a blind alley that served its purpose in former times, but had no place in the modern world.

There has probably been as much change in Christianity, even other religions, as there has been in science.  Sadly, some of that change has been negative - nuclear weapons, treatment of woman - some of it positive - abolition of slavery, the discovery of vaccination and vacines.

[Hope]

Christianity started out hellenistic. It's a syncretism of Greek mystery cults with Judaism.

The Hellenistic influence came after the faith had been in existence for a number of years and was never all-embracing.

[Hope]

Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire in 380CE under the rule of Theodosius I.

And how long does it take after something is adopted as a state concept before it becomes widespread?  Especially in an extensive and multi-cultural empire as Rome's?