Original sin.

[Leonard James]

Can some Christian please tell me what "original sin" is currently taken to mean?

[newnature]

Can some Christian please tell me what "original sin" is currently taken to mean?

Christianity developed the notion of original sin. Christianity is all about keep the issue of sin on the table of God's justice. Religion will take care of that original sin for people, but that concept was added to the bible.

So extreme are the psalmist’s guilt feeling that he sees himself as sinful even before birth.

Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. It is the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like and having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.

[floo]

Can some Christian please tell me what "original sin" is currently taken to mean?

I thought those who believe in that daft concept, still think naughty Eve was to blame for encouraging Adam to eat the forbidden fruit.

[Leonard James]

I thought those who believe in that daft concept, still think naughty Eve was to blame for encouraging Adam to eat the forbidden fruit.

I asked the question, Roses, because I am not sure what the modern Christian concept is.

NN's answer is totally unclear, but I'm not sure that he is a Christian.

[Stranger]

Christianity developed the notion of original sin. Christianity is all about keep the issue of sin on the table of God's justice. Religion will take care of that original sin for people, but that concept was added to the bible.

So extreme are the psalmist’s guilt feeling that he sees himself as sinful even before birth.

Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. It is the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like and having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.

Christianity developed the notion of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the hands of Eden, evil responsibility for evil will lie in the cosmos. It is represented not as a condition of God's justice. Religion will become like awareness of Eden, evil is a product of human beings. Evil is a Yahweh like and having that evil stems from human behavior Christianity is all about Yahweh, he knows good and bad; it’s one of the issue of human beings. Evil is represented not built into the power of human behavior, not as a Yahweh like and having that one will lie in the hands of the things about Yahweh, he sees himself as sinful even before birth. Evil is a product of sin on the good. The very action that was added to the bible. So extreme are the psalmist’s guilt feeling that human beings and only human beings will lie in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh he knows good and only human existence, and bad, and only human beings will lie in the cosmos. It is Yahweh like awareness of God's justice. Religion will take care of their mortal autonomy, was added to Yahweh. Yahweh like and bad, and to assert that human beings will become like and having that that human ...

http://www.critters.org/bonsai/index.cgi

[Leonard James]

Christianity developed the notion of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the hands of Eden, evil responsibility for evil will lie in the cosmos. It is represented not as a condition of God's justice. Religion will become like awareness of Eden, evil is a product of human beings. Evil is a Yahweh like and having that evil stems from human behavior Christianity is all about Yahweh, he knows good and bad; it’s one of the issue of human beings. Evil is represented not built into the power of human behavior, not as a Yahweh like and having that one will lie in the hands of the things about Yahweh, he sees himself as sinful even before birth. Evil is a product of sin on the good. The very action that was added to the bible. So extreme are the psalmist’s guilt feeling that human beings and only human beings will lie in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh he knows good and only human existence, and bad, and only human beings will lie in the cosmos. It is Yahweh like awareness of God's justice. Religion will take care of their mortal autonomy, was added to Yahweh. Yahweh like and bad, and to assert that human beings will become like and having that that human ...

http://www.critters.org/bonsai/index.cgi

I fear I can understand very little of this post or the answer.

Is there a Christian out there who can answer briefly and clearly please?

[floo]

I asked the question, Roses, because I am not sure what the modern Christian concept is.

NN's answer is totally unclear, but I'm not sure that he is a Christian.

I was under the impression moderate non Biblical literalists didn't believe in the concept of original sin, whilst the fundies believed it was all the fault of A&E disobeying god by eating the forbidden fruit.

I think nn is a WUM, enjoying himself.

[newnature]

Christianity developed the notion of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the hands of Eden, evil responsibility for evil will lie in the cosmos. It is represented not as a condition of God's justice. Religion will become like awareness of Eden, evil is a product of human beings. Evil is a Yahweh like and having that evil stems from human behavior Christianity is all about Yahweh, he knows good and bad; it’s one of the issue of human beings. Evil is represented not built into the power of human behavior, not as a Yahweh like and having that one will lie in the hands of the things about Yahweh, he sees himself as sinful even before birth. Evil is a product of sin on the good. The very action that was added to the bible. So extreme are the psalmist’s guilt feeling that human beings and only human beings will lie in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh he knows good and only human existence, and bad, and only human beings will lie in the cosmos. It is Yahweh like awareness of God's justice. Religion will take care of their mortal autonomy, was added to Yahweh. Yahweh like and bad, and to assert that human beings will become like and having that that human ...

http://www.critters.org/bonsai/index.cgi

Religion started at the Tower of Babel. Satan was up to something else back them days. Look at what Satan did with Cain.

[Leonard James]

I was under the impression moderate non Biblical literalists didn't believe in the concept of original sin, whilst the fundies believed it was all the fault of A&E disobeying god by eating the forbidden fruit.

That is my impression, too, but I would like our Christian posters to clarify for me.

[newnature]

I asked the question, Roses, because I am not sure what the modern Christian concept is.

NN's answer is totally unclear, but I'm not sure that he is a Christian.

Look at what the Catholics did with original sin. They say Mary had to be a sinless woman in order for a holy God could put that seed in her. Now you have this sin that Religion wants to help you out with. It was the moral choice of good and bad that got the human race into trouble.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Len,

Can some Christian please tell me what "original sin" is currently taken to mean?

Though they cannot demonstrate it to be true, Christians think there to be something they call "God".

They also think this "God" to be be pretty terrific, and concerned not to allow bad things to happen and to make everyone happy (well I say everyone, but they also think that "He" has a bit of a hissy fit when some people back the wrong horse by choosing another god, but anyways...).

Clearly though bad things do happen and lots of people are not happy at all. What then to do as what's observably true contradicts the nursery story? Easy peasy - just make the bad stuff all our fault!

Now this needed a story of some kind, so the early authors of this stuff dreamt up "Adam" and "Eve" (an iron-age notion that modern evolutionary theory has long-since fundamentally blown out of the water) and decided that they broke one of "God's" rules, so in exchange this "God" called their behaviour "original sin" and punished them for it by giving brain cancer to babies thousands of years later.

Just to complete the job of knife-twisting, Christians have also got it into their heads that to be forgiven for this offence that someone else entirely committed long ago and far away we need to be "redeemed", redemption entailing all sorts of dehumanising obeisances to this "God" of theirs.

It's morally disgusting and as mad as a monkey on a tricycle carrying a box of frogs I know, but there it is nonetheless. There really are people alive now who we entrust to drive cars and to lay turf the right way up who actually believe this stuff, however bewildering their credulity is for the rest of us. 

Hope that helps 

[Spud]

Can some Christian please tell me what "original sin" is currently taken to mean?

Our tendency to rebel against God's authority and set ourselves up as our own masters.

[Shaker]

Somebody has to do the job 

[Leonard James]

Len,

Though they cannot demonstrate it to be true, Christians think there to be something they call "God".

They also think this "God" to be be pretty terrific, and concerned not to allow bad things to happen and to make everyone happy (well I say everyone, but they also think that "He" has a bit of a hissy fit when some people back the wrong horse by choosing another god, but anyways...).

Clearly though bad things do happen and lots of people are not happy at all. What then to do as what's observably true contradicts the nursery story? Easy peasy - just make the bad stuff all our fault!

Now this needed a story of some kind, so the early authors of this stuff dreamt up "Adam" and "Eve" (an iron-age notion that modern evolutionary theory has long-since fundamentally blown out of the water) and decided that they broke one of "God's" rules, so in exchange this "God" called their behaviour "original sin" and punished them for it by giving brain cancer to babies thousands of years later.

Just to complete the job of knife-twisting, Christians have also got it into their heads that to be forgiven for this offence that someone else entirely committed long ago and far away we need to be "redeemed", redemption entailing all sorts of dehumanising obeisances to this "God" of theirs.

It's morally disgusting and as mad as a monkey on a tricycle carrying a box of frogs I know, but there it is nonetheless. There really are people alive now who we entrust to drive cars and to lay turf the right way up who actually believe this stuff, however bewildering their credulity is for the rest of us. 

Hope that helps 

Blue, thanks for the macabre story, 

I'm still hoping that some Christians will answer me.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hi Len,

Blue, thanks for the macabre story, 

I'm still hoping that some Christians will answer me.

No problem. Some may - either with new algorithm-style gibberish, or with some lily-gilding to soften the basic idea. Let's see though shall we?

[Leonard James]

Our tendency to rebel against God's authority and set ourselves up as our own masters.

Thank you, Spud. Can you tell me where in the Bible this explanation occurs, and why it is given the name of "original sin"?

[Spud]

Somebody has to do the job 

Which job?

[floo]

Our tendency to rebel against God's authority and set ourselves up as our own masters.

Good for us, we need to rebel against an evil god if it exists.

[Spud]

Thank you, Spud. Can you tell me where in the Bible this explanation occurs, and why it is given the name of "original sin"?

Watcha Len. It's in Genesis 3.

[Spud]

I think original sin is so called in order to distinguish it from individual sins.

[Leonard James]

Watcha Len. It's in Genesis 3.

Having read it again, I was struck by the dreadful, over the top, unjust punishment meted out. Thank goodness we humans are not so vindictive.

[Sebastian Toe]

Religion started at the Tower of Babel. Satan was up to something else back them days. Look at what Satan did with Cain.

What is the difference between a well dressed Satan on a unicycle and a poorly dressed Satan on a bicycle?



Attire.

[bluehillside Retd.]

What's the difference between a "what's the difference" joke and a rhetorical question?

[Sebastian Toe]

What's the difference between a "what's the difference" joke and a rhetorical question?

Yes?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Seb,

Yes?

Yes what?