#regressive left

[Jack Knave]

Dear Jack,

I agree with Shaker, time for real politics, no more sticking plasters, time for the people of Great Britain to say, you are very lucky, lets spread that luck to our less fortunate, give them a chance to share in our good fortune, it is the Christian thing to do.

Gonnagle.

But as I implied to Shakes, Corbyn and his lot aren't going to be voted into power.

And if his type - your type - was given power how would they spread it around, as you put it?

[Shaker]

But as I implied to Shakes, Corbyn and his lot aren't going to be voted into power.

I think that one remains to be seen, don't you?

[Rhiannon]

Whether he does or he doesn't he offers a proper choice again. British politics really needed to have that.

[Jack Knave]

I think that one remains to be seen, don't you?

You should at least provide a scenario where it comes about by 2020 or are you saying after that? Because at the moment the people are not with him or that the numbers are well short - consider the dire strait of Labour in Scotland.

[Jack Knave]

Whether he does or he doesn't he offers a proper choice again. British politics really needed to have that.

What about UKIP and the Greens, they're just a good as choice as Corbyn if not better.

[Rhiannon]

What about UKIP and the Greens, they're just a good as choice as Corbyn if not better.

I wasn't talking about chance, I was talking about choice. We have choices now.

[Jack Knave]

I wasn't talking about chance, I was talking about choice. We have choices now.

I think you replied to the wrong post, I was also talking about choice.

[Rhiannon]

My apologies, Jack. Posting on my phone without my specs.

Arguably you won't be able to get a fag paper between the Greens and Labour under Corbyn. But I'm not sure that you can say that a 'good' choice is the right term particularly as you then include UKIP - what is good and bad is subjective, although arguably a case can be made that one is worse than another. The important thing is that we now have clear choices as to where we cast our votes.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You should at least provide a scenario where it comes about by 2020 or are you saying after that? Because at the moment the people are not with him or that the numbers are well short - consider the dire strait of Labour in Scotland.

Yes and let's not forget the Scots Conservative who routed the SNP into a humiliating FIRST place.

[L.A.]

I agree that Labour is unelectable but the real question is what are the PLP going to do about it?

Corbyn will, with time, take more and more power to his cause leaving the moderate lot to be on the fringes, and so create the illusion that the party isn't split - so the mods need to act sooner than later? If he bombs in 2020 I can't see how the ones who voted him in will not ensure is continuous. So what do the rest, the centre left lot, do?

Labour seem doomed to be dragged down into the political gutter before they have any chance of rising again. And that could mean many years or government terms......?

If Corbyn consolidates his hold on power the moderates will have no alternative but to split - it will be 1981 all over again; so get out all your old Shakin' Stevens vinyls and put on those leg warmers.

My guess is that Theresa May will become the Iron Lady so stand by for fireworks in the South Atlantic.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jack,

And if his type - your type - was given power how would they spread it around, as you put it?

My type, what is my type, I have been a Labour/Consevative/SNP supporter throughout my life, I have listened to UKIP and thought some of the things they say sounds sensible, The Greens are, well they are the Greens, so I am unsure about what my type is, I suppose as I grow older my politics nowadays is governed by the word "fairness" and that is fairness for all, I certainly don't want the rich to pay higher taxes than me, just that they pay their fair share of taxes, you earn a quid you pay your tax on that quid, you don't have a fancy accountant use loopholes to avoid paying your fair share.

As for spreading it around, well the most sensible thing I have heard on here and from Mr Corbyn is renationalise the railway, the work force of good old GB should not have to pay through the nose to keep the wheels of industry moving, then there is the sticky subject of trident, do we keep it, scrap it, Pandora's box is open so bugger all we can do about, I don't really know what to do about it, but it is very expensive business and should be discussed, and at a European level, maybe even global.

Mr Corbyn, ( when the man can get a word in and not being heckled by the weak chins ) sounds sensible, I don't think he is a big fan of Brussels, but better the devil you know, Corbyn is the very man to hold Brussels to account, Cameron is not, the way I see it his heart is not in it, the Tories for me are all smoke and Mirrors, this whole European Referendum is one big smoke and mirrors, Tories squabbling over Europe, more smoke and mirrors, we still have companies going bust, we still have foodbanks, the NHS is being ridden rough shod, I know, I see it first hand, I was at a meeting where just my department had to find savings of 70 million pounds, don't just take my word for it, ask ProfDavey, he also works in the NHS.

Time to spread the wealth Jack old son, no more austerity, the people of GB are fed up with unfairness and austerity.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

... don't just take my word for it, ask ProfDavey, he also works in the NHS.

... as does trent, while we're at it.

Excellent post gonners.

[L.A.]

Mr Corbyn, ( when the man can get a word in and not being heckled by the weak chins ) sounds sensible, I don't think he is a big fan of Brussels, but better the devil you know, Corbyn is the very man to hold Brussels to account, Cameron is not, the way I see it his heart is not in it, the Tories for me are all smoke and Mirrors, this whole European Referendum is one big smoke and mirrors, Tories squabbling over Europe, more smoke and mirrors, we still have companies going bust, we still have foodbanks, the NHS is being ridden rough shod, I know, I see it first hand, I was at a meeting where just my department had to find savings of 70 million pounds, don't just take my word for it, ask ProfDavey, he also works in the NHS.

Against all my expectations I have to say - the only sensible voice I have heard from Labour in recent times is Hilary Benn. Is he the only person in the party who hasn't fallen victim to the collective death-wish?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Lapsed,

Your man Hilary Benn is a great orator, he can set the pulse racing, but that is all, he has fallen for the Blairite agenda, there are still some in the Labour party who think Tory, this must change and I think the Tory party has to change to, the world has suddenly got a lot smaller, migration is a big issue now, we can't shut up shop and hope they go away, the Labour party and the Tories need to get tough, I don't mean tell them to go away, they need to step up and say, what are we as Europeans going to do, or more simply, what are we as humans going to do.

As for Corbyn, very poor orator, you really need to listen carefully and think hard when that man talks, but I think it is worth it.

Gonnagle.

[Jack Knave]

My apologies, Jack. Posting on my phone without my specs.

Arguably you won't be able to get a fag paper between the Greens and Labour under Corbyn. But I'm not sure that you can say that a 'good' choice is the right term particularly as you then include UKIP - what is good and bad is subjective, although arguably a case can be made that one is worse than another. The important thing is that we now have clear choices as to where we cast our votes.

Though it may be true about the fag paper it is also about perceived credibility and all that. People may vote for a party who is similar to another only because they are new or novel and that they have no past track record that puts them in a bad light. Or just for a change...

I did say 'as good as' not good. But your comment about UKIP, with regards to this, shows your bias and a heap load of unfounded assumptions. 

[Jack Knave]

Yes and let's not forget the Scots Conservative who routed the SNP into a humiliating FIRST place.

It wasn't a majority and now they (Scotland) have been given more powers we'll see how long they last. The SNP have been all talk to date but now they have to put their words into actions...

[Gonnagle]

Dear Vlad,

Yes and let's not forget the Scots Conservative who routed the SNP into a humiliating FIRST place.

The Borders have spoken and what they are saying is, we don't want a border.

Have the SNP lost their tartan tory name, we watch and wait

Gonnagle.

[Jack Knave]

If Corbyn consolidates his hold on power the moderates will have no alternative but to split - it will be 1981 all over again; so get out all your old Shakin' Stevens vinyls and put on those leg warmers.

My guess is that Theresa May will become the Iron Lady so stand by for fireworks in the South Atlantic.

They say a week is a long time in politics and who knows what will happen up to 2020? But as it looks Labour are stuffed and are heading for an internecine disintegration. The Conservatives are not free from this either as the referendum is doing them a lot of harm and they have made a load of U-turns, and Osborne has been a fumbling fool with his budgets. Not to mention the perceived return of the nasty party.

This leaves the other burgeoning parties to flourish in the changing political waters of our present times - as we see in European and across the pond.

[Jack Knave]

Dear Jack,

My type, what is my type, I have been a Labour/Consevative/SNP supporter throughout my life, I have listened to UKIP and thought some of the things they say sounds sensible, The Greens are, well they are the Greens, so I am unsure about what my type is, I suppose as I grow older my politics nowadays is governed by the word "fairness" and that is fairness for all, I certainly don't want the rich to pay higher taxes than me, just that they pay their fair share of taxes, you earn a quid you pay your tax on that quid, you don't have a fancy accountant use loopholes to avoid paying your fair share.

As for spreading it around, well the most sensible thing I have heard on here and from Mr Corbyn is renationalise the railway, the work force of good old GB should not have to pay through the nose to keep the wheels of industry moving, then there is the sticky subject of trident, do we keep it, scrap it, Pandora's box is open so bugger all we can do about, I don't really know what to do about it, but it is very expensive business and should be discussed, and at a European level, maybe even global.

Mr Corbyn, ( when the man can get a word in and not being heckled by the weak chins ) sounds sensible, I don't think he is a big fan of Brussels, but better the devil you know, Corbyn is the very man to hold Brussels to account, Cameron is not, the way I see it his heart is not in it, the Tories for me are all smoke and Mirrors, this whole European Referendum is one big smoke and mirrors, Tories squabbling over Europe, more smoke and mirrors, we still have companies going bust, we still have foodbanks, the NHS is being ridden rough shod, I know, I see it first hand, I was at a meeting where just my department had to find savings of 70 million pounds, don't just take my word for it, ask ProfDavey, he also works in the NHS.

Time to spread the wealth Jack old son, no more austerity, the people of GB are fed up with unfairness and austerity.

Gonnagle.

My question about how would you spread it around really refers to the financial system and the banks. To do what you want to do you first need to kill the beast - the banking system. It is rotten. It should have been dealt with after 2008. The real austerity problem is that we spend (and not only us) a billion a week just to service our government debt. That's 50 billion odd a year. How far would that go for your NHS budget?

Our debt should have been written off and the banking system totally changed. This is why Greece is in the mess it is because the bailouts are there to pay off the banks - Greece only gets 5% of the bailouts the rest just does a round trip back to the banks, but the whole 100% is put on the Greek balance sheet. Greece is bankrupt, it has no hope in hell of paying this debt off and will have all its 'silver' and assets bought off cheap before they write the debt off. It's a scam, Mafia style. They, the banks, are the ones running the world and the EU and they are A1 crooks. And this is what is happening to your NHS, it is being set up to be privatised so the big corporations; funded by the banks, can come in and gut it out, leaving us in the same health service mess the US has.

To do what you want we need to cut out the cancer in our political and social lives.

[Jack Knave]

Against all my expectations I have to say - the only sensible voice I have heard from Labour in recent times is Hilary Benn. Is he the only person in the party who hasn't fallen victim to the collective death-wish?

Can't stand the weasel!!!

Kate Hoey is my gal!!!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jack,

I fully understand your arguments and I agree in the broadest sense but this is where the likes of Corbyn steps in, he will hold the banks to account, he will make sure that the weak, the poor do not suffer for the banks misfortune, the tories are not doing enough to bring the banks into line, they are still trying to hurt our most vulnerable in trying to fix the mess the worlds banks got us into, the tories are to far in bed with the banks, the rich and shameless, the tories don't have the will or the balls to stand up to the banks and I think this will be their downfall, time to stop this austerity nonsense, open the purse strings, spend on infrastructure, housing, open up colleges, stop this race for a university degree, give our youngsters reall skills that this country needs.

Gonnagle.

[jakswan]

Whether he does or he doesn't he offers a proper choice again. British politics really needed to have that.

We've always had choice, if you wanted the hard left there were parties that offered that.

I think what we need is a good opposition to hold the Tory government to account. The Tories have been woeful recently and Corbyn isn't able to land a blow because of the sniping going on in his own party, no policy and massive own goals.

What is the Labour position on Trident? What did John McDonnell suggest for the Google fiasco, a sales tax- but Google sales are in Ireland. The anti-Semitism scandal hasn't helped either.

[L.A.]

Dear Lapsed,

Your man Hilary Benn is a great orator, he can set the pulse racing, but that is all, he has fallen for the Blairite agenda, there are still some in the Labour party who think Tory, this must change and I think the Tory party has to change to, the world has suddenly got a lot smaller, migration is a big issue now, we can't shut up shop and hope they go away, the Labour party and the Tories need to get tough, I don't mean tell them to go away, they need to step up and say, what are we as Europeans going to do, or more simply, what are we as humans going to do.

As for Corbyn, very poor orator, you really need to listen carefully and think hard when that man talks, but I think it is worth it.

Gonnagle.

Hi Gonnagle,

It's a bit of an over-statement to describe Benn as 'my man' , I was simply pointing out that he seems to be the only one who talks sense, and 'talking' is all any politician can do until they gain power. To get power they need to convince their party and the electorate of their credibility. Talking sense is a first step. For most of the electorate, what you call 'Blairism' equates to 'not doing stupid things' .

Corbyn is indeed a very poor orator and pretty poor in every over area too. The far Left love him - but sadly for Labour the voters don't.

[L.A.]

They say a week is a long time in politics and who knows what will happen up to 2020? But as it looks Labour are stuffed and are heading for an internecine disintegration. The Conservatives are not free from this either as the referendum is doing them a lot of harm and they have made a load of U-turns, and Osborne has been a fumbling fool with his budgets. Not to mention the perceived return of the nasty party.

If the Conservatives are able to sort themselves out after the referendum and Labour keep Corbyn, it will be a very long time before we ever see another Labour government.

This leaves the other burgeoning parties to flourish in the changing political waters of our present times - as we see in European and across the pond.

'First Passed the Post' does not favour small parties.

[Jack Knave]

Dear Jack,

I fully understand your arguments and I agree in the broadest sense but this is where the likes of Corbyn steps in, he will hold the banks to account, he will make sure that the weak, the poor do not suffer for the banks misfortune, the tories are not doing enough to bring the banks into line, they are still trying to hurt our most vulnerable in trying to fix the mess the worlds banks got us into, the tories are to far in bed with the banks, the rich and shameless, the tories don't have the will or the balls to stand up to the banks and I think this will be their downfall, time to stop this austerity nonsense, open the purse strings, spend on infrastructure, housing, open up colleges, stop this race for a university degree, give our youngsters reall skills that this country needs.

Gonnagle.

But though Corbyn's intentions are noble he has no power to implement them. If he becomes PM and tries to do this the banks will just downgrade the UK's economy and make borrowing sky-high and bring it to its knees. The people will scream like babies and the Tories will promise to put things straight which means that the banks will upgrade the UK again and make the people pay even more because, as you say, the Tories brown tongue the banking system.

The banks won't yield because people with a huge amount of power do not voluntary give it up, they defend it to the death - this is just human nature. It is like a drug and an addict always wants more. The only way to deal with the bankers and the elites is to have a revolution and basically kill them off.