#regressive left

[Aruntraveller]

You are stupid to moan about my comments to you when you come out with inane material as that. 

Perhaps if you tried actually forming an argument or cogent comment things would proceed in a more smoother manner.

Yes of course I will you blind, naïve monkey.

[L.A.]

As for a Remain victory, the argument and issue to leave the EU is a strong and valid one and those against it will keep on fighting for it. The other thing here is that the conduct of the EU after a Remain victory will, I think, create a demand for another referendum in a few years time. Brussels are arrogant, egotistical twats and will surely irk the British people and this will give UKIP a boost in the poles.

Couldn't disagree more -UKIP are a 'one trick pony' , if they fail in the referendum, they have blown it.

. . . and ironically, if they succeed in the referendum they will also have blown it -  because the Tories will claim all the credit.

[jakswan]

Couldn't disagree more -UKIP are a 'one trick pony' , if they fail in the referendum, they have blown it.

. . . and ironically, if they succeed in the referendum they will also have blown it -  because the Tories will claim all the credit.

I disagree, look what happened to the SNP, they are a number of voters who won't vote Tory for tribal reasons, yet see immigration as an issue. Labour were at least paying lip service to issue prior to Corbyn now not so much, also don't forget if you voted leave what other party represents you than UKIP, all others will be Europhile.

[L.A.]

I disagree, look what happened to the SNP, they are a number of voters who won't vote Tory for tribal reasons, yet see immigration as an issue. Labour were at least paying lip service to issue prior to Corbyn now not so much, also don't forget if you voted leave what other party represents you than UKIP, all others will be Europhile.

I said in an earlier posting that if the country votes to Remain, UKIP will be reduced to small groups of malcontent's muttering in corners - and I still think that will be the case. They will have thrown everything they could muster into the project and the country rejected them! They certainly couldn't  justify another referendum and we sure as hell aren't going to quit without one.

They will just be a load of grumpy old gits without a cause.

[jakswan]

I said in an earlier posting that if the country votes to Remain, UKIP will be reduced to small groups of malcontent's muttering in corners - and I still think that will be the case. They will have thrown everything they could muster into the project and the country rejected them! They certainly couldn't  justify another referendum and we sure as hell aren't going to quit without one.

They will just be a load of grumpy old gits without a cause.

I'm no fan of UKIP but I think your post is an example of wishful thinking. If we vote leave then their cause is over, vote remain and UKIP goes on.

[L.A.]

I'm no fan of UKIP but I think your post is an example of wishful thinking. If we vote leave then their cause is over, vote remain and UKIP goes on.

I'm sure that there will be the die-hards, but will any serious politicians really want to pursue a lost cause? Will the public really want another sodding referendum?

Which ever way it goes we will need to move on.

[jakswan]

I'm sure that there will be the die-hards, but will any serious politicians really want to pursue a lost cause? Will the public really want another sodding referendum?

Which ever way it goes we will need to move on.

If we vote leave I'm pretty confident the EU will offer another deal, another referendum based on this new deal... I'm pretty sure that from that deal there will be a strong remain vote. Then we can move on and UKIP will be pushed to the fringe anything else they stay in play.

[Jack Knave]

Couldn't disagree more -UKIP are a 'one trick pony' , if they fail in the referendum, they have blown it.

. . . and ironically, if they succeed in the referendum they will also have blown it -  because the Tories will claim all the credit.

You can disagree as much as you like you will be proved wrong. Politics is changing.

[Jack Knave]

I'm sure that there will be the die-hards, but will any serious politicians really want to pursue a lost cause? Will the public really want another sodding referendum?

Which ever way it goes we will need to move on.

Talking about moving on, where is the EU going? It is breaking apart. There are more and more parties across its members who are taking a anti-EU stance. Two of its pillars are crumbling : Schengen and the Euro.

[JP]

The core labour voter was the working man. Coal miners, ship builders, steelworkers....., of course many of these jobs have gone but the people still exist, they are just doing other things.

It is a pity the party they used to look up to now holds these very same people in such contempt. Once again a person who has concerns is called a "horrible racist". The labour party seem to do this a lot.

She went on to say, "I'm never coming back to wherever this is". You couldn't make it up. 

[Shaker]

The core labour voter was the working man. Coal miners, ship builders, steelworkers....., of course many of these jobs have gone but the people still exist, they are just doing other things.

It is a pity the party they used to look up to now holds these very same people in such contempt.

That certainly used to be the case during pretend-Labour's Tory-lite nightmare years (i.e. when Labour was for some reason run - I use the word loosely - by people who couldn't even spell socialism let alone espouse it), but not any more.

[jeremyp]

Two of its pillars are crumbling : Schengen and the Euro.

How can they be pillars of the EU when not all of the EU's members are in either of them?

[Jack Knave]

How can they be pillars of the EU when not all of the EU's members are in either of them?

That is besides the point. These are fundamental parts of their big plan of Ever-Closer-Union. They are part of what define and sum up what the EU is about and where it wants to go and by definition are part of the pillars of their foundation that are holding up their big fat wet dream!!! If they crumble, as they are doing, then the whole edifice of the EU will collapse, and with it the Neo-Liberal, Western project and the financial system which is its evil black hole that all of these satellites revolve around .

[jeremyp]

That is besides the point.

No it isn't, it's exactly the point.

These are fundamental parts of their big plan of Ever-Closer-Union.

Well it's not working then, is it.

They are part of what define and sum up what the EU is about

How can they be when several member states are not in Schengen or the Euro?

[JP]

That certainly used to be the case during pretend-Labour's Tory-lite nightmare years (i.e. when Labour was for some reason run - I use the word loosely - by people who couldn't even spell socialism let alone espouse it), but not any more.

When you get to a certain age, you come to realise things are just actually repeating themselves so whatever the current labour lot do will be nothing new. If I could guess I would expect it to be some sort of Chavez- lite - socialist - paradise and as Corbyn seems to be intent on repealing the laws pertaining to trade unions, how many Scargills and Crows are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of that (always best to keep a tin handy...).

For all the pronises, it won't work, again. After a single parliament or maybe two if they're lucky, people will have had enough and vote in the Tories once more on promises of a better this and that, but the reality will be the same as the last time. It always is.

[Gonnagle]

Dear JP,

So you think the world has not moved on, do you think Mr Corbyn has not grown up, still stuck in what we call old socialist views, I don't think he is, I think the man has grown, but that is not the only thing to consider, giving the unions a bit more clout ( not trade unions, old school ) is something to consider, why, because of greed, shareholders need to consider that their profits are not short term things, they need to think about the long term, reinvestment of profits so that the company can survive, short term profits, the fast buck only hurts companies.

I am not a union fan, but they are a necessary evil, they are there to stop management treating the workforce like some kind of commodity, for Britain to survive in this big bad world we need to reinvest in our most precious possession, the people, stop seeking the fast buck.

Also with new technology, the world is watching, unions can't get away, their tactics will be out there for all to see, information is very easy to get a hold of now and I think the British public are now more politically savvy, and I have witnessed over the years that the British public are less inclined to be sympathetic to the whims of union who just say, right brothers, lets strike, unions need to be very careful now about what action they take.

Who is stuck in the old mold, the Tories, old politics for a old generation, top down politics, the profits will trickle down to the workforce, not when greed is involved, the Tories need to realise that they are not just governing for the ones who voted them in, they have a responsibility to everyone in Britain, just like the SNP here in Scotland, they need to get over Independence and start governing for everyone and it is great that the Tories and SNP are now minority governments, they need to talk.

Short term greed versus long term prosperity.

Gonnagle.

[JP]

I think the world had moved on a lot Gonners. I think the socialism in the days I was growing up when I played with children who had the arse hanging out their trousers, wore hand me down shoes, had to cross the road for a crap and took a bath in an oversized tin in front of the fire is a different type of socialism to today where these same children, as adults, own their own home, run two cars and holiday abroad twice a year. Now don't berate me as I know there is still a lot of poverty, all I am saying is there is a lot more wealth in the hands or more people than there used to be.

Is Corbyn the man on a white stallion who will spread this wealth even further? Who knows.

I'm not getting into a tit for tat over it as I think you will find my views are not too far from those you hold yourself. I am a child of the Northumberland coalfields.

[wigginhall]

I think that Labour govts do make a difference in some areas.  For example, much as I dislike Blair, he put money into the NHS, and I could see the difference.   Now I have to wait 2 weeks to see a GP.  Surely, this is deliberate policy by the Tories? 

At the same time, Blair did a lot of bad stuff, so rather like Clinton in the US, you hold your nose to vote.

[Gonnagle]

Dear JP,

Well old son, I am trying to figure out if that has ever been my thinking, where I came from affects my vote, yes I came from a poor background, but the term "working class" always bothered me, to me it always said, I am working class and better than you, like, I work for my money what do you do.

I suppose where I am coming from is that I don't want Britain to be another America, a rich country but still suffers from poverty, to me that is madness, something perverse in saying to the poor, I worked hard for what I have got away and do the same, I think the mentality should be, I got lucky, lets spread the luck, the phrase, there for the grace of God, replace the word God with, lucky breaks.

Give the poor the means to work themselves out of poverty, stop telling them to, away and get a job, invest in them, I am sure everyone will benefit in the long run.

Gonnagle.

[Aruntraveller]

Strop being silly Gonners.

We all know how it works:

To get the rich to work harder you pay them more.

To get the poor to work harder you pay them less.

Simple innit 

[Jack Knave]

No it isn't, it's exactly the point.

Well it's not working then, is it.

How can they be when several member states are not in Schengen or the Euro?

One, am talking about their ideal and what the EU should be, for them, in their eyes.  And two, most of them are in both and a sufficient number, and most of the wealthier ones, are such that should these pillars collapse then the whole thing comes tumbling down. 

[JP]

Just catching up as I've been away, and this is a classic.....

Natalie Geraldine Twistleton-Wykeham-Fiennes
Richard Collet-White
Esme Waldron
Alex Etchart
William Pettifer
Deborah Francis-Grayson
Sam Lund-Harket
Ben Tippet
Sama Baka

Responsible for the disruption at the London City Airport. Costs unknown but could easily be into the million(s) plus the 9000 people who were screwed over.

Rich and priveleged, Corbynites I bet. Just like them to know what is good for the "working man". Mind you, when they get tired of this hobby no doubt they will have a career waiting for them in the city, or the arts, or 100K director of a charity, or working for the UN. I'm sure daddy or one of his friends will fix them up with something.

I also see they got conditional discharges. Very magnanimous of the Judge.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/black-lives-matter-uk-activists-sentenced-after-city-airport-protest-grounded-hundreds-flights-1581384

[JP]

I didn’t want to start a new thread so thought I would stick this here as it is a bit regressiveleftyish.

It is choice, liberating. Nobody forces me to wear it. It is my faith.
As a feminist, I support your right to wear Hijab because it's a choice. Help by supporting them on world hijab day.

I see there was an Australian woman who flew all the way to France so she could wear a burkini on a beach while the Guardian ran a piece, “Five reasons to wear a burkini – and not just annoy the French”.

I also see the women’s world chess championships are to be held in Iran and the same paper has a piece with the banner, “Boycott of world chess championship would hurt women in Iran”

Now, I hear you asking yourselves, why would these women chess players boycott the world chess championship. Perhaps it is because players have been told they must compete at next year's world championship wearing a hijab.

That is forced to wear, no choice, yet the guardian supports both stances. It supports people who wear the burkini and it supports forced hijab in Iran.

Just sayin.

[JP]

Wow. What do you think happened to the srtictly result. In the beginning it was embroiled in the never far away rascism thing as black people were being voted off.

First it was....

Strictly Come Dancing embroiled in race row after Tameka Empson becomes second black celeb to be kicked off show after Melvin Odoom voted off.

then

Strictly race row continues after Naga Munchetty is fourth contestant to leave the competition.

and

Greg Rutherford: We can't rule out Strictly vote being racist

Can we rule the racism thing out now, or is it possible the same uneducated people who voted for Brexit got mixed up (again) and voted the wrong way. Perhaps when they were voting for the black celeb, they thought it was for an elimination. Should there be a re-run?

[JP]

Wilfrid Laurier University Grad Student Association blasted for terminating café operator over help wanted ad

Cafe forced to close and 11 people out of work as young people have lost the ability to detect humour. Wilfrid Laurier University Grad Student Association need to grow up.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/wilfrid-laurier-university-gsa-cafe-veritas-contract-1.3900665