Author Topic: Why Christ is the Son of God.  (Read 25853 times)

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Why Christ is the Son of God.
« on: April 28, 2016, 09:33:48 AM »
Luke 1:35.
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 17:3King James Version (KJV)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.



The first commandment summing up the whole of the law and teachings of the Prophets is:-

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart.

Jesus clearly states that if you love him you will keep his commandments.
He clearly states that God is to be first and foremost in our hearts when it comes to loving.

By declaring Jesus to be God we are disobeying God.
In Luke the Angel tells Mary that Jesus is a Holy thing... that he is to be called the Son of God.

It isn't difficult seeing the words of Christ himself and even the words of Peter and Stephen.


Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.


To understand how Christ went from being called the Son of God (as God commanded him to be known and a Holy Thing) to be called God.

The truth is that God gave Jesus the Words he spoke as he said Deuteronomy 18:15-21.
And like Moses the people were to adhere to his words as if God speaking.

Does the truth really matter?

It does because we see people who believe in Jesus, who preach and work miracles still told that Jesus never knew them.

In Christianity it is love for God and others which is the most important part of the faith.

We see the world as it is, but one day an end will come to this world as we know it.
Then shall come the things God intended for all of us.

Revelation 21:4King James Version (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



Sometimes fear makes people believe the wrong things.
Jesus said it is about living in Spirit and truth and true believers do.

In not obeying God and Christ, we see people lead to misunderstand the truth being taught.

God must be obeyed and both Stephen and Peter understood that Christ was the Son of God and that God annointed him with power and the Holy Spirit and so he was able to do what he did, because God was with Jesus Christ.


God isn't Going to ask who told you what you believe. He is going to ask " Why you never obeyed him or what he taught through Jesus Christ."

Eternal life is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the only true God sent.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19469
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2016, 09:44:10 AM »
Sassy,

Quote
Luke 1:35.
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 17:3King James Version (KJV)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. etc

Or, to put it another way, because a book you choose to think is accurate says so.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2016, 11:13:52 AM »
You first have to prove the existence of "God" before you can start talking about Jesus being his son. Your book of fables is not proof.

floo

  • Guest
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2016, 11:38:52 AM »
Luke 1:35.
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 17:3King James Version (KJV)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.



The first commandment summing up the whole of the law and teachings of the Prophets is:-

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart.

Jesus clearly states that if you love him you will keep his commandments.
He clearly states that God is to be first and foremost in our hearts when it comes to loving.

By declaring Jesus to be God we are disobeying God.
In Luke the Angel tells Mary that Jesus is a Holy thing... that he is to be called the Son of God.

It isn't difficult seeing the words of Christ himself and even the words of Peter and Stephen.


Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.


To understand how Christ went from being called the Son of God (as God commanded him to be known and a Holy Thing) to be called God.

The truth is that God gave Jesus the Words he spoke as he said Deuteronomy 18:15-21.
And like Moses the people were to adhere to his words as if God speaking.

Does the truth really matter?

It does because we see people who believe in Jesus, who preach and work miracles still told that Jesus never knew them.

In Christianity it is love for God and others which is the most important part of the faith.

We see the world as it is, but one day an end will come to this world as we know it.
Then shall come the things God intended for all of us.

Revelation 21:4King James Version (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



Sometimes fear makes people believe the wrong things.
Jesus said it is about living in Spirit and truth and true believers do.

In not obeying God and Christ, we see people lead to misunderstand the truth being taught.

God must be obeyed and both Stephen and Peter understood that Christ was the Son of God and that God annointed him with power and the Holy Spirit and so he was able to do what he did, because God was with Jesus Christ.


God isn't Going to ask who told you what you believe. He is going to ask " Why you never obeyed him or what he taught through Jesus Christ."

Eternal life is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the only true God sent.

More assertions no factual evidence. ::)

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2016, 11:41:13 AM »
Sassy,

Or, to put it another way, because a book you choose to think is accurate says so.

I guess I believe what God says despite all I see changing in the world.
What is it you believe to be 'not accurate' about Christ being the Son of God?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

  • Guest
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2016, 11:43:15 AM »
Sass, how do you know what is quoted in the Bible has anything to do with a deity. Supposing it does, it would bring into question the mental health of god.

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2016, 11:43:37 AM »
More assertions no factual evidence. ::)
What? You are saying the Bible does not state that? That it is not a fact and therefore evidence that it states that Christ is the Son of God?
You comment has no place on this thread if you are not stating that.

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2016, 11:44:26 AM »
I guess I believe what God says despite all I see changing in the world.
What is it you believe to be 'not accurate' about Christ being the Son of God?

You have yet to provide any reason to think that there is a god, and that, if there is, then the bible has anything to do with it....
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2016, 11:44:36 AM »
You first have to prove the existence of "God" before you can start talking about Jesus being his son. Your book of fables is not proof.

Not so! Because this thread is about WHY Christ is the Son of God.
You need no belief in God to be able to understand why the bible makes this a truth.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2016, 11:46:37 AM »
You have yet to provide any reason to think that there is a god, and that, if there is, then the bible has anything to do with it....

What the bible says about Christ is proof of the bible relating that which was to come and did.
However given you are trying to make this about God, it shows lack of ability to really see why Christ is the Son of God according to the bible. It lacks the ability to separate your own unbeliefs from the reasoning of the actual belief Christ is the Son of God.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2016, 11:47:16 AM »
Not so! Because this thread is about WHY Christ is the Son of God.
You need no belief in God to be able to understand why the bible makes this a truth.
No belief in God to be able to understand why Jesus is the son of something you don't believe exists?

Try very, very hard to think about what's wrong with this.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

  • Guest
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2016, 11:50:34 AM »
What? You are saying the Bible does not state that? That it is not a fact and therefore evidence that it states that Christ is the Son of God?
You comment has no place on this thread if you are not stating that.

I thought you weren't replying to my posts? ;D

I am saying just because something is in the Bible doesn't mean it has any credibility. I have a perfect right to challenge your baseless assertions.

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2016, 11:50:46 AM »
What the bible says about Christ is proof of the bible relating that which was to come and did.
However given you are trying to make this about God, it shows lack of ability to really see why Christ is the Son of God according to the bible. It lacks the ability to separate your own unbeliefs from the reasoning of the actual belief Christ is the Son of God.

You entitled the thread "Why Christ is the Son of God" - not "Why the bible says Christ is the Son of God".
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Étienne d'Angleterre

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 757
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2016, 11:55:21 AM »


We see the world as it is, but one day an end will come to this world as we know it.
Then shall come the things God intended for all of us.

Revelation 21:4King James Version (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.




So why bother with the former things at all? Why not just go straight to what God intended for us?

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2016, 12:37:07 PM »
Not so! Because this thread is about WHY Christ is the Son of God.
You need no belief in God to be able to understand why the bible makes this a truth.

Don't be silly, Sass. If a person doesn't believe in "God", how on earth can they believe he had a son?

The Bible can't make anything a truth ... it's just a book written by men under the illusion that  some power was guiding them.

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19469
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2016, 02:30:41 PM »
Sassy,

Quote
I guess I believe what God says despite all I see changing in the world.

No, what you believe is what a book claims that "God" says, which is a very different thing.

Quote
What is it you believe to be 'not accurate' about Christ being the Son of God?

Well, everything but that's not the issue. You called this thread "Why Christ is the Son of God" - and then just posted some bits from a book. Presumably therefore you think you've answered the question you asked by doing so. The question that precedes that though is why you think this book to be accurate or truthful.

Only when you have a cogent and persuasive reply to that question can your answer be worth consideration.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 02:33:00 PM by bluehillside »
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Khatru

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 807
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2016, 03:40:58 PM »
What's the difference between your sky pixie and a plank of wood?

Try this simple prayer test.....

Pray to your imaginary sky pixie for something specific to happen.

There are three possible outcomes:

That specific thing happens...Sky pixie says "Yes"

That specific thing doesn't happens...Sky pixie says "No"

It might happen later - Sky pixie says "Wait and see".

=======================================

Now, pray to a plank of wood for the same specific thing to happen.

There are three possible outcomes:

That specific thing happens...Plank of wood says "Yes"

That specific thing doesn't happens...Plank of wood says "No"

It might happen later - Plank of wood says "Wait and see".

===========================================

There you have it.  Proof positive that you can't tell the difference between your deity of choice and a plank of wood.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Dorothy Parker

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19469
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2016, 04:25:25 PM »
Khatru,

Quote
There you have it.  Proof positive that you can't tell the difference between your deity of choice and a plank of wood.

To an extent, but a statistical sample of one in each case is fairly worthless: the theist would just respond to the effect that his God intervened or not as "He" chose in case one, whereas nothing happened in case two.

The trick is to increase the sample - say to 1,000 events in each case - and then to compare the results. And when they turn out to be the same (as they do) you have a probabilistic argument to the effect either that God chooses to produce results the same as those for the plank of wood (in which case why bother with the praying at all?) or that there's no God in the first place.

Double blind trials on the effect of prayer on hospital patients have been carried out by the way, with the predictable result that there was no difference in outcomes when the patients did not know when they were prayed for. When they did know their outcomes were actually slightly worse - presumably because they thought "blimey, this is more serious than I thought" and responded accordingly!
"Don't make me come down there."

God

floo

  • Guest
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2016, 08:43:32 AM »
Prayer is praised when the outcome is positive, but the excuse that god knows best is often trotted out when the outcome is negative. ::)

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 08:46:19 AM »
No belief in God to be able to understand why Jesus is the son of something you don't believe exists?

Try very, very hard to think about what's wrong with this.

Your ignorance or blind refusal of the fact Christ foretold in the bible including what he did is your denial of the facts.

Worse is your ignorance that man knew God from the very beginning.

You can say what you want but you will still and always will be---WRONG.

I guess shakes your indisgressions are showing.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Ricky Spanish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3016
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 09:39:43 AM »
Luke 1:35.

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Happens all the time.... you see these crazy sort of stories all over the internet.


Quote
John 17:3King James Version (KJV)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Awww Naw... Not "John" again, somebody would think, that you think, that everything you read written by "John" is true.

I suppose that is a sign of a good story-teller.




Quote
Acts 10:38 King James Version (KJV)

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Another lesson in good story-telling. The fact that Acts was probably written between 80-130 C.E. seems to allude you, can you guess why this is significant?

Quote
Acts 7: 55

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

The Author of this tract is claiming that "Stephen" (a good Greek name BTW) saw the "Son of Man" standing beside God, who he thinks may be Jesus, but never having met Jesus may have been mistaken.

Also, this whole chapter throws up an interesting paradox.

If a Sanhedrin had the power to stone a blasphemer in this instance, why did they not just stone Jesus?

Quote
Deuteronomy 18:15-22.

Yup you have a point, this does apply to Jesus:

18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

21 And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?'

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.




Quote
Revelation 21:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I suppose it better than his usual answer. Flood, death, destruction and start again...  Oh hang on!!
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2016, 10:56:04 AM »
Look Sass, have a word with Hope, he recons he has the evidence you need to establish that your manual is in fact accuratly representing the truth, he might share this elusive evidence he says he has with you, only he wont share it with anyone else, think about it Sass you could become his chosen one.

ippy

Sassy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11080
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2016, 11:18:47 AM »
Happens all the time.... you see these crazy sort of stories all over the internet.

1.What happens all the time? This did not originate from the internet. Denial I see.
One thing I know is there is no wardrobe big enough for you to fit in so you can reach Narnia.
So evasion rather than denial.
Why not answer the simpliest of answers. God told us Jesus is to be called the Son of God.

Quote
Awww Naw... Not "John" again, somebody would think, that you think, that everything you read written by "John" is true.

I suppose that is a sign of a good story-teller.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Or in this case whether you know both God and Christ by believing in him.

Did you ever try? Not a good story teller then but the understanding of the reader to see what is before them.
Have you ever had something right under your nose and got it so wrong?

Quote
Another lesson in good story-telling. The fact that Acts was probably written between 80-130 C.E. seems to allude you, can you guess why this is significant?


How long is it, since Charles Dickens wrote his works? How long since the Magna Carta written. When Peter said these things
is not the issue. It is a fact that what people say can be long remembered after their death. Take Winston Churchill for
instance. You think on...





Quote
The Author of this tract is claiming that "Stephen" (a good Greek name BTW) saw the "Son of Man" standing beside God, who he thinks may be Jesus, but never having met Jesus may have been mistaken.

Also, this whole chapter throws up an interesting paradox.

If a Sanhedrin had the power to stone a blasphemer in this instance, why did they not just stone Jesus?


The answer is that he was full of the Holy Ghost so knew automatically whom Christ and God were.
As for Christ, they could do him no harm till the time appointed. He had done no wrong.


Quote
Yup you have a point, this does apply to Jesus:

18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

21 And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?'

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.



Of course it applies to Jesus. He did all the things the Messiah was meant to do.
Understanding Gods words has never been one of the plus points for the Jews when it came to the Messiah.
But Jesus did all the things like opening the eyes of the blind and ears of the deaf.


Quote
I suppose it better than his usual answer. Flood, death, destruction and start again...  Oh hang on!!


It is about life, life in all it's fullness with hope and truth at the centre.
The final outcome a world without suffering. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
But not something you want to be part of? Some people are so hurt and damaged here they do not realise even that can
be healed in Christ.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

  • Guest
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2016, 11:40:41 AM »
Your ignorance or blind refusal of the fact Christ foretold in the bible including what he did is your denial of the facts.

Worse is your ignorance that man knew God from the very beginning.

You can say what you want but you will still and always will be---WRONG.

I guess shakes your indisgressions are showing.

I am of the opinion the story of Jesus was created by the gospel writers to fit in with so called prophesies. Funny that very few recognised him as a messiah.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: Why Christ is the Son of God.
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2016, 02:16:57 PM »
I am of the opinion the story of Jesus was created by the gospel writers to fit in with so called prophesies. Funny that very few recognised him as a messiah.


Either that Floo or they knew there would always be a number of gullible people about so they threw a few contrived/invented prophesies to keep the likes of Sass and the Alan B's of this world happy.

Come back Sparky.

ippy



     
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 03:01:45 PM by ippy »