Why Christ is the Son of God.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Just to save me wading through all that green ink, did Sassy's explanation for why Jesus was the son of God ever amount to anything more than, "because a book says so"?

Ta.

[Bubbles]

Your ignorance or blind refusal of the fact Christ foretold in the bible including what he did is your denial of the facts.

Worse is your ignorance that man knew God from the very beginning.

You can say what you want but you will still and always will be---WRONG.

I guess shakes your indisgressions are showing.

I'm on my mobile and was wondering what indiscretions shaker had got up too.

 

Must be time I got some new glasses, or a bigger phone

[Leonard James]

Just to save me wading through all that green ink, did Sassy's explanation for why Jesus was the son of God ever amount to anything more than, "because a books says so"?

Ta.

What poverty of spirit to let your whole life be dictated to you from a collections of stories written by deluded people of thousands of years ago.

I know it's difficult, but we should be extending our sympathy to Sass. 

[Leonard James]

What poverty of spirit to let one's whole life be identified by what one does with one's Hector.......don't you agree?

We should not let our lives be controlled by anything except a moral code which says love your fellow man and care for the environment.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We should not let our lives be controlled by anything except a moral code which says love your fellow man and care for the environment.

I tend to agree but think the odd fig tree ''fair game''.

[Leonard James]

I tend to agree but think the odd fig tree ''fair game''.

 

Destroying living things in a fit of temper, is hardly "fair game".

[jeremyp]

Your ignorance or blind refusal of the fact Christ foretold in the bible including what he did is your denial of the facts.

All the bits of the Bible that mention Christ were written after his death. That's not foretelling.

[/quote]

[Ricky Spanish]

1.What happens all the time? This did not originate from the internet. Denial I see.
One thing I know is there is no wardrobe big enough for you to fit in so you can reach Narnia.
So evasion rather than denial.

Ahh OK Let's stick to the ancient tales of miraculous birth: 

Hinduism.

In the story of Krishna the deity is the agent of conception and also the offspring. Because of his sympathy for the earth, the divine Vishnu himself descended into the womb of Devaki and was born as her son, Vaasudeva (i.e., Krishna). The Hindu Vishnu Purana relates: "Devaki bore in her womb the lotus-eyed deity...before the birth of Krishna, no one “could bear to gaze upon Devaki, from the light that invested her, and those who contemplated her radiance felt their minds disturbed.” This reference to light is reminiscent of the Vedic hymn "To an Unknown God," which refers to a Golden Child.

Buddha - Conception and birth.

The stories of Buddha’s unusual birth developed through the centuries. Two accounts cited by Boslooper tell of the descent of the future Bodhisattva from the "Tusita Body" into the mother’s womb, the appearance of the Buddha in the mother as a shining gem, and the accompanying wonders in the natural world. These are the Majjhima-Nikāya, 123 Acchariyabbhutadhammasuta III. 119-124; (I. B. Horner, 1959, pp. 164–169); and Māhapadānasutta, Dīgha ii. 12. In the Mahapadana-sutra, Digha ii. 12, is the description of the incarnation of the Vipassī Buddha.

"Now Vipassi, brethren, when, as Bodhisat, he ceased to belong to the hosts of the heaven of Delight, descended into his mother’s womb mindful and self-possessed."

Zoroaster.

Zoroaster’s name has been adopted from the Greek and Latin Zoroastres. The ancient form of his name in the Avesta is Zarathustra. His native country was probably Media in Western Iran, (possibly in modern Azerbaijan), but his ministry took place in eastern Iran, especially in the region of Bactria, about 1200 BC. Zoroaster was originally a Magian priest, and under the reforms he instituted, Mithra became one of the Yazatas (Worshipful Ones), the angels or lesser divine beings.

"It was said that (Zoroaster's) birth was foretold from the beginning of time, and that the moment he was born, he burst out laughing and the whole universe rejoiced with him." After his birth evil demons tried to destroy him, but with Ahura Mazda's protection, he survived all attempts on his life.

The Zoroastrian tradition differs from the Christian one because the divine only assists in the preservation of Zoroaster’s seed. "The central scripture, the Avesta and also the Pahlavi texts include the tradition that the 'kingly glory' is handed onward from ruler to ruler and from saint to saint for the purpose of illuminating ultimately the soul of the Zarathushtra." Also the scriptures clearly allude to conjugal relations between his parents, during which evil spirits try to prevent his conception.

But according to later tradition, Zoroaster's mother, Dughdova, was a virgin when she conceived Zoroaster by a shaft of light.

There is absolutely nothing new in the miraculous birth stories contained in the gospel.. they are just a rehash of old myths that were doing the rounds in the area...

Why not answer the simpliest of answers. God told us Jesus is to be called the Son of God.

.

Noooo. The writers of the Gospels try to tell us this, not God... I'm sure a God would have announced it in a more impressive way, that all of us couldn't possibly deny.

Why is this fact so unattainable to you?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Or in this case whether you know both God and Christ by believing in him.

When was the last time this "God" came down to "prove" anything?

Did you ever try? Not a good story teller then but the understanding of the reader to see what is before them.
Have you ever had something right under your nose and got it so wrong?

Oh I can tell some stories, and mine would be much more believable than the ones contained in the NT.

How long is it, since Charles Dickens wrote his works? How long since the Magna Carta written. When Peter said these things
is not the issue. It is a fact that what people say can be long remembered after their death. Take Winston Churchill for
instance. You think on...

Works.. aren't the gospels referred to as "Works"..  You do know that Dickens was a story-teller, not a very good one, but had a plethora of "works" as did good old Willie Shakespeare.

The Magna Carta - we know quite a lot about the Magna Carta :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta. Not so much about who wrote the gospels.. in fact most of them are anonymous and constructed decades if not generations after the fact by people who never met the apostles, let alone Jesus so are bound to be a bit more than flawed!!

Churchill...  walked on water did he?

The answer is that he was full of the Holy Ghost so knew automatically whom Christ and God were.
As for Christ, they could do him no harm till the time appointed. He had done no wrong.

Churchill believed this?

Wow, what the fuck was in his cigars?

Of course it applies to Jesus. He did all the things the Messiah was meant to do.
Understanding Gods words has never been one of the plus points for the Jews when it came to the Messiah.
But Jesus did all the things like opening the eyes of the blind and ears of the deaf.

Worth reiterating:

Yup you have a point, this does apply to Jesus:

18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

21 And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?'

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.

God certainly did indeed warn his followers about Jesus.

[trippymonkey]

What about those Christians who say Jesus IS God despite this initial quote ?

Nick

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Destroying living things in a fit of temper, is hardly "fair game".

No one would object to tearing up a sapling in order to give a new atheist a richly deserved thrashing though.

[Leonard James]

No one would object to tearing up a sapling in order to give a new atheist a richly deserved thrashing though.

What a splendid, forward looking mindset!

[Rhiannon]

No one would object to tearing up a sapling in order to give a new atheist a richly deserved thrashing though.

Ok, that's a bit weird.

[Spud]

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.



Eternal life is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the only true God sent.

The quickest way to see the mistake in the Jehovah's Witness interpretation of John 17:3 is in Eph 4:4-6. ("there is one God and one Lord") If "One God" excludes Jesus from God, then "One Lord" excludes God from being Lord.
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-texts-john17-3.htm

[Brownie]

I don't understand why you have quoted the above, Spud.  Unless you think another poster is a Jehovah's Witness because they call Jesus, ''Son of God'' but not, ''God'', and want to draw our attention to it.  Were that the case, it wouldn't matter in the slightest, however JWs are not the only group of people who believe Jesus is the son of God but not God.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't understand why you have quoted the above, Spud.  Unless you think another poster is a Jehovah's Witness because they call Jesus, ''Son of God'' but not, ''God'', and want to draw our attention to it.  Were that the case, it wouldn't matter in the slightest, however JWs are not the only group of people who believe Jesus is the son of God but not God.

He's quoted it because that is Sassy's position. It's the point she is making in the OP

[floo]

He's quoted it because that is Sassy's position. It's the point she is making in the OP

Sassy a JW?

[Brownie]

News to me too floo, in fact I'm pretty sure she isn't, not that it matters.  What Sassy quoted and said are what she has always believed (sorry Sass, as you are here today you can say it for yourself), but Spud seems to have quoted something about Jehovah's witnesses who believe the same on that particular issue. They also solely use the KJV. I have no idea why or how it is relevant.  It is surely what Sass says that is the point of this thread, not which other body of believers agree.

(I posted that something Spud said a couple of weeks ago was in line with what JWs believe and he may have been a bit put out by that, though didn't appear to be. I didn't quote from any site in support of it, 'twas just a passing thought. )

[Ricky Spanish]

Harry Potter is the Half-Blood Prince... It says so in a popular Book!!


Or does it?

[Ricky Spanish]

Jon Snow has just been resurrected..

Is he Jesus?

[Sassy]

The quickest way to see the mistake in the Jehovah's Witness interpretation of John 17:3 is in Eph 4:4-6. ("there is one God and one Lord") If "One God" excludes Jesus from God, then "One Lord" excludes God from being Lord.
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-texts-john17-3.htm

NO JEHOVAHS WITNESS HERE. NO MISTAKE IN CHRIST WHAT HE SAID...

As BAAL means Lord then by your own stupidity and the use of others texts then that would make baal part of God too, wouldn't it. God warns you about getting the creation confused with the creator.

Christ is the created...made man. He is Gods son because he does as God does.  As we see when Christ tells the descendants of Abraham when they claim him to be their Father. " If Abraham was your Father you would do as he did."

The truth is you deceitfully drop lies like it is a Jehovahs witness teaching when in truth the words of Christ are completely plain.

Paul is clear on his teaching that when God has put all things under Christ then Christ shall return all things including himself back under God.

King James Bible
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Berean Literal Bible
Now when all things shall have been put in subjection to Him, then also the Son Himself will be put in subjection to the One having put in subjection all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.



What I find irritating the most, is the struggle to try and twist everything to a false teaching that the Roman Catholic Church started to try and keep the Jews from taking their rightful place and the Gentiles being grafted in.
Truth is that without these teachings of men most people would have no beliefs because they do not get their own oil so cannot come to know the truth. They leave the pathway of the one way in Jesus Christ to manmade teachings they then proceed to wave like a rod/baton to judge the people who belong to God in Christ.

What is most sad is they do not understand the meaning of what Christ teaches...

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There is two commandments...

Love God

Love your neighbour.

In truth there is one way and that way is Jesus Christ. He has fulfilled all that was written about the Messiah.
You lot are like the Pharisees. You think that you can earn your way into heaven.
But Spirit and Truth are the only way that way is Jesus Christ.

Jesus has shown you how to love and that in itself reveals how you live.

It HAS nothing to do with what man twists things too. The OT does not support the teachings of man which they twist out of the NT. If it isn't in the old then it isn't in the new.

Jesus is called the Son of God because God ordained it...

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Jon Snow has just been resurrected..

Is he Jesus?

He didn't look to well on the channel four news the other day.

Isn't Game of Thrones a euphemism for Irritable Bowel Syndrome?

[Sassy]

He's quoted it because that is Sassy's position. It's the point she is making in the OP

No it isn't. The point I am making is that Christ makes that point.
The same could be said about Christians and the Jewish Scripture when the Jews say the Christians have got it wrong.
Given the teaching that the son of perdition would make himself out to be God, then the real danger becomes the Christians have a false religion if they believe Christ is God and not as God commanded the Son of God.

Luke 1`

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Is that referring to the reign over the house of Jacob? Is it for the Jews only the house of Jacob?

Clearly the Angel tells Mary....

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Christ a Holy Thing... things which belong to God were called Holy.  Christ was and is to be called the Son of God.
Why do you think God makes that stipulation?

King James Bible
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Being called Holy or a Holy People of God does not make us God. But interesting how those in Christ has the right to be called the Children of God.

King James Bible
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


John 1:12
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God--

Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

It is clear that because 

The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

We can see the truth why Jesus is the Son of God and why as believers we become the sons/children of God.
We also see why their is no male/female or Jew/Gentile because it is by Gods power through the truth and presence of Gods Spirit within us that we are made the children of God.

[Sassy]

News to me too floo, in fact I'm pretty sure she isn't, not that it matters.  What Sassy quoted and said are what she has always believed (sorry Sass, as you are here today you can say it for yourself), but Spud seems to have quoted something about Jehovah's witnesses who believe the same on that particular issue. They also solely use the KJV. I have no idea why or how it is relevant.  It is surely what Sass says that is the point of this thread, not which other body of believers agree.

(I posted that something Spud said a couple of weeks ago was in line with what JWs believe and he may have been a bit put out by that, though didn't appear to be. I didn't quote from any site in support of it, 'twas just a passing thought. )

It was the KJV which I first came to understand and learn about Moses and God.
In Gods teachings we see that the first important teachings from God come through Moses.
We see the history and truth about God and man. What I feel most do not learn in earliest lessons is that God and man have a destiny which nothing can be changed for mankind. All the arguments about whom God is and what has happened does not change what will happen. You can hurl insults and complain discriminately but we know all will come to pass and if people had any sense they would heed what is to pass instead of complaining about it.

I am not a JW the JW's and Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God does that make them Anglicans and even Roman Catholics because they believe that too... Or do they... Do the Anglicans believe what God has told them that Jesus is the Son of God or do they go beyond the teachings and say that Jesus is God.

The truth is God was with him and he had power and the Holy Spirit with him.
That in Christ we are all one in God by the power of Gods Spirit making us all one.

In truth most people just believe any teachings they are given. But Peter and his teachings show the gospel message is to believe in Christ as the Son of God sent to save us.  The Messiah, is the Prophet sent from God to give us the final truth and show us the way forward for Gods people.

We can see how everyone believes the things they were warned would come those false Prophets who would teach things Christ never taught.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Gods way not mans... I am who I am in Christ and what God sent him to do.
As Paul taught. " I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus"  we do not have righteousness of our own because all sinned and were sinners.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This has made me recall a formulation of Gerald Priestlands which has God saying of Jesus, "this is what I am like......in fact I am so like this, as far as you are concerned I am this.

[Spud]

NO JEHOVAHS WITNESS HERE. NO MISTAKE IN CHRIST WHAT HE SAID...

As BAAL means Lord then by your own stupidity and the use of others texts then that would make baal part of God too, wouldn't it. God warns you about getting the creation confused with the creator.

Christ is the created...made man. He is Gods son because he does as God does.  As we see when Christ tells the descendants of Abraham when they claim him to be their Father. " If Abraham was your Father you would do as he did."

If Jesus was not called God in several verses of the NT you would have a point. When he mentions God in John 17:3 it is because he is distinguishing God from idols, and does not preclude his own deity.