Ken Livingston - rabid anti-semite

[jakswan]

While I've always thought Ken was a bit toxic the accusation was made on the big questions earlier, which i thought was OTT.

Thoughts?

[Hope]

While I've always thought Ken was a bit toxic the accusation was made on the big questions earlier, which i thought was OTT.

Thoughts?

Probably no more so than Corbyn or any other leading politician.

[floo]

Goodness knows what planet Livingstone is on to make such offensive, crazy and  unsupported comments!

[Hope]

Goodness knows what planet Livingstone is on to make such offensive, crazy and  unsupported comments!

If I remember corrtly from what I have been told, Hitler didn't initially blkame the Jews for all the German people's troubles; that came somewhat later in his career.  However, whther he had ever suggested having them deported to either Palestine or the US - as Naz Shah accepts that she has done, is another issue.

[Nearly Sane]

Goodness knows what planet Livingstone is on to make such offensive, crazy and  unsupported comments!

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525

[Brownie]

He didn't say anything anti-semitic, people want to take his statement out of context and read more into it.  Might have been better if he'd said nothing but what he actually said is not anti-Jewish.

Very interesting link NS, thank you.

[L.A.]

While I've always thought Ken was a bit toxic the accusation was made on the big questions earlier, which i thought was OTT.

Thoughts?

I think Ken has a perfect right to express his opinions and should continue to do so (at lease until the end of the week) 

[Enki]

He didn't say anything anti-semitic, people want to take his statement out of context and read more into it.  Might have been better if he'd said nothing but what he actually said is not anti-Jewish.

Very interesting link NS, thank you.

I have no reason to think that Livingstone is a 'rabid anti-semite'.

Yet he was exceedingly parsimonious (and to some extent inaccurate) with the truth, and, by doing so gave the impression that the Zionists and Hitler were of like mind(which I think that Jewish people find particularly hurtful), when all that they had in common was the wish to remove the Jews from Germany, but for very different reasons. Hitler wasn't supporting Zionism at all. Livingstone was the one who, it seems, needed to put his own statements into their true context.

[Brownie]

He was clumsy in what he said, like most people he needs to take a breath and think before making a statement.  Public figures particularly. 

'Zionism' is a word used too freely, I understand that Jewish people themselves have something to say about that.  I'll try and find a link.

http://this-is-not-jewish.tumblr.com/post/34344324495/how-to-criticize-israel-without-being-anti-semitic

[Enki]

This is part of what the the Guardian has to say about it:

Its context(the Havaara agreement),as Weiss points out, was as a deal forged under the threat of Nazi persecution. Following the end of Jewish emancipation in Germany, she writes: “German Jewry had to formulate survival tactics vis-ŕ-vis the Nazi government of their own country.”

The interest of some in the Zionist movement was to flee the rampant and increasingly dangerous antisemitism of the National Socialists, but the German interest in the Haavara agreement was both fear that the Jewish boycott of Germany might have wider economic effects - ultimately a misplaced anxiety - and a desire to push German Jews to flee.

The Haavara agreement was designed to encourage the emigration of Jews from Germany in line with National Socialist policies, but it did not have in mind the foundation of a Jewish state in Palestine, a key tenet of Zionism.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/30/livingstone-muddies-history-to-support-hitler-and-zionism-claims

[Brownie]

Thanks enki.

[jeremyp]

Goodness knows what planet Livingstone is on to make such offensive, crazy and  unsupported comments!

What were the comments he made?

[L.A.]

What were the comments he made?

If you analyse his words, they actually do make literal sense - but it's never good say anything positive about Hitler in the context of Jews - and he forgot that golden rule:

"When you are in a hole, stop digging"

Still, his comments might lose a few Labour councils, so good luck to the silly sod.

[jakswan]

I don't think it was anti-Semitic although trying to defend another labour politician, who had suggested that Jews be moved to the USA, by bringing Hitler into the conversation was utterly stupid.

[Maeght]

If I remember corrtly from what I have been told, Hitler didn't initially blkame the Jews for all the German people's troubles; that came somewhat later in his career.

In Mein Kampf, written in 1825 before Hitler came to power, he blamed Jews for a lot of Germany's problems. He also hinted at genocide. His antisemitism most probably developed after the First World War when he began to blame the Jews for Germany's defeat - so not sure what you were told but whatever it was it doesn't sound right.

[Hope]

In Mein Kampf, written in 1825 before Hitler came to power, he blamed Jews for a lot of Germany's problems. He also hinted at genocide. His antisemitism most probably developed after the First World War when he began to blame the Jews for Germany's defeat - so not sure what you were told but whatever it was it doesn't sound right.

OK, Maeght; I accept I was wrong.  Its a long time since I even attempted to read Mein Kampf, and I thought that the anti-Jew thing started once he had gained power in '33.  My bad.

[Maeght]

OK, Maeght; I accept I was wrong.  Its a long time since I even attempted to read Mein Kampf, and I thought that the anti-Jew thing started once he had gained power in '33.  My bad.

Fair enough.