Who are the NT epistles aimed at?

[jeremyp]

The Jews had a pretty good grasp of their national history, and believed/believe that he was.

it doesn't matter. Those two passages make no reference to any of Daniel' prophecies or the book he allegedly wrote. They cannot be used to date the Book of Daniel.

[Spud]

Daniel was written around 164BCE, 1 Maccabees around 100BCE

So either you think the author of 1Maccabees 2:59-60 made up the quote by Mattathias concerning Daniel and his three friends, or, if Mattathias was a real person, you think he himself believed in four characters who had been invented just the other day?

[Spud]

Neither of the above options makes sense. The only remaining opttion is that Daniel was written long before Mattathias'  own time.

[Ricky Spanish]

When Paul does refer to "the church of God" it was obviously not the "Church" as we know it today. In his epistles, it is only a small "church".

Have we established who you 'think' "the NT epistles" are "aimed at" yet?

Well.

Got a generic answer to this question yet?

Ignore all the Daniel crap, totally irrelevant to your question, which is NT-based, and fuck all to do with the book "jesus" knew...

[Ricky Spanish]

..although TBF. The NT'ers trawled through it to find shit they believed prophesied the Christ Paul propagated in his letters, but didn't really understand what they collated and mistakenly thought it was prophecy.. which it ain't..  more like mythology..

There we go hope, a get out clause to answering the above! 

[Sassy]

So often we stray from the path of reality because we look too hard at the inconsequential matters.
The Epistles were mainly aimed at the uneducated in the way of the OT and Jewish religion.
However, though they were to explain they were not there to take the place of the Way and the Truth.

The letters written to people and the church in different parts of the world explained and gave instruction to the elders and believers in each church. What it did not do and cannot do is replace Christ and the way of coming to God the Father through him. The word of God is given to us through the Spirit. It is through Gods Spirit the individual receives the truth from God.

There is no aim at anyone but the persons they were sent to.

[floo]

More unsubstantiated assertions from Sass.

[Spud]

Well.

Got a generic answer to this question yet?

Ignore all the Daniel crap, totally irrelevant to your question, which is NT-based, and fuck all to do with the book "jesus" knew...

Jesus made reference to Daniel. He said that the abomination of desolation which Daniel spoke of would appear again within that generation.

..although TBF. The NT'ers trawled through it to find shit they believed prophesied the Christ Paul propagated in his letters, but didn't really understand what they collated and mistakenly thought it was prophecy.. which it ain't..  more like mythology..

There we go hope, a get out clause to answering the above! 

As with much of OT prophecy, you have a near fulfillment which points to something greater, such as the sacrificial system (unblemished animal pointing to a sinless man who would make a once for all sacrifice for sin), or the exile to Babylon and restoration which is a picture of mankind's sin against, and reconciliation with God effected by the Messiah. The restoration of the Jews prefigures the resurrection of the body, etc.

The near fulfillment of the abomination of desolation occurred at the time of Antiochus IV. The greater fulfillment, whatever it was exactly, was accompanied by armies surrounding Jerusalem, signalling to the Church that the city's desolation was near.

God also warned the Church in Revelation that it would suffer great persecution before being eventually vindicated. This was prefigured by the persecution under Antiochus.

The lesson from Daniel is that God literally warned the Jews of coming tribulation but with the comfort that it would 'refine' them and that their enemies would eventually be defeated. If you believe Daniel is actual prophecy, you have evidence that God exists and is involved in this world. Same goes for Christ's prophecy regarding that generation. The Evangelists say it was true prophecy; the skeptics say it was fabricated after the event. It all depends who you trust.

If you trust the NT you can be sure Jesus will return.

[floo]

Pie in the sky!

[Sassy]

The letters written to people and the church in different parts of the world explained and gave instruction to the elders and believers in each church. What it did not do and cannot do is replace Christ and the way of coming to God the Father through him. The word of God is given to us through the Spirit. It is through Gods Spirit the individual receives the truth from God.

More unsubstantiated assertions from Sass.

GOOGLED NEW TESTAMENT EPISTLES...

The Epistles of the Bible are the 21 books in the New Testament that constitute formal letters of instruction from elders to leaders and members of the new Christian church. Thirteen of the Epistles were written by the Apostle Paul, three by the Apostle John, two by the Apostle Peter, and one each by James and Jude.

Nothing I said which could not be substantiated by anyone wanting to learn the truth.
My writings are substantiated it is your knowledge which is lacking and causing you to make uneducated and untrue statements.

So now you have again been prove wrong are you going to shut up! And give the educated a rest from your uneducated and proven untrue assertions?

[floo]

Your wittering is not substantiated except by you.

[Ricky Spanish]

Jesus made reference to Daniel. He said that the abomination of desolation which Daniel spoke of would appear again within that generation.

No, you are absolutely wrong with this assertion on so many levels:

The (anonymous) writers who put these words into "Jesus'" mouth claim that this is what they wanted "Jesus" to say to validate their claim about Jewish 'prophecy'.

The fact remains that "Jesus" never wrote a 'gospel' - so anything the 'gospels' claim as from the mouth of their "Christ" is spurious at best, or damn right lies at worst!

Something that hardcore "Christians" gloss over all the time.


 

As with much of OT prophecy, you have a near fulfillment which points to something greater, such as the sacrificial system (unblemished animal pointing to a sinless man who would make a once for all sacrifice for sin), or the exile to Babylon and restoration which is a picture of mankind's sin against, and reconciliation with God effected by the Messiah. The restoration of the Jews prefigures the resurrection of the body, etc.

Sorry spuds, you dont mind me calling you spuds I hope, but nothing above refers to a "messiah". Unless you contorted enough to suck on said spuds!

The near fulfillment of the abomination of desolation occurred at the time of Antiochus IV. The greater fulfillment, whatever it was exactly, was accompanied by armies surrounding Jerusalem, signaling to the Church that the city's desolation was near.

The what, the who?

How is this nonsense contemporary with Jesus?

God also warned the Church in Revelation that it would suffer great persecution before being eventually vindicated. This was prefigured by the persecution under Antiochus.

Again, fuck all to do with Jesus, in what way has this to do with a "messiah"?

The lesson from Daniel is that God literally warned the Jews of coming tribulation but with the comfort that it would 'refine' them and that their enemies would eventually be defeated. If you believe Daniel is actual prophecy, you have evidence that God exists and is involved in this world. Same goes for Christ's prophecy of regarding that generation. The Evangelists say it was true prophecy; the skeptics say it was fabricated after the event. It all depends who you trust.

If you trust the NT you can be sure Jesus will return.

Moderator: content removed.

In ways that I cannot be arsed to explain here because you are beyond redemption and it would be a case of TL:DR.

Maybe a suggestion of; to read a few books will take that mote out of your eye, so you can see clearly!!

[Ricky Spanish]

GOOGLED NEW TESTAMENT EPISTLES...

The Epistles of the Bible are the 21 books in the New Testament that constitute formal letters of instruction from elders to leaders and members of the new Christian church. Thirteen of the Epistles were written by the Apostle Paul, three by the Apostle John, two by the Apostle Peter, and one each by James and Jude.

Nothing I said which could not be substantiated by anyone wanting to learn the truth.
My writings are substantiated it is your knowledge which is lacking and causing you to make uneducated and untrue statements.

So now you have again been prove wrong are you going to shut up! And give the educated a rest from your uneducated and proven untrue assertions?

Really. 13 written by Paul. 3 by John, 2 by Peter and 1 by James and Jude?

Which website claims this?

Everybody else on the planet KNOWS that only 7 letters were probably written by 'Paul'., the rest were accredited to "Paul" to give gravitas to their claims. I.E. Forgeries.

As for J.P.J2 and J3.. all anonymous I'm afraid.. yet more lies propagated by the "Church".

Think on it this way.

Is the Qu'ran the true word of God?

[Spud]

No, you are absolutely wrong with this assertion on so many levels:

The (anonymous) writers who put these words into "Jesus'" mouth claim that this is what they wanted "Jesus" to say to validate their claim about Jewish 'prophecy'.

You don't know that. As I said, it depends whether you trust Daniel and the NT or the skeptics. Maybe I didn't make my thinking clear enough. I believe that Daniel's prophecy applied to 164 BC, but that Jesus foresaw the same thing happening in his generation, and that he fulfilled texts like Daniel 9:24 in a greater sense than how the Maccabees did.

For those who trust that Daniel (and Isaiah for that matter) is not fabricated, his prophecy and its fulfillment in the Greek empire are proof that God is real and was acting in Jewish history.

The next step is to see how the Jews, who were given God's standard so that they could live it and show the world it, were themselves incapable of attaining it and thus unable to save themselves from being invaded and booted out of the promised land over and over again.

There was a bigger plan all along, which was for God to rescue the Jews and all humanity from the consequences of sin, ie death itself, by coming as a man, and attaining that standard, which no man on his own could do.

[jeremyp]

You don't know that. As I said, it depends whether you trust Daniel or the skeptics.

Do you mean Daniel the character in the book or the author of the book? They are different people.

[Brownie]

More unsubstantiated assertions from Sass.

It is mainstream Christian teaching, floo.  You would have been taught the same, as I was.  You may consider it 'unsubstantiated' of course, as you no longer believe, but it is what the vast majority of Christians believe.

[Sassy]

Nothing I said which could not be substantiated by anyone wanting to learn the truth.
My writings are substantiated it is your knowledge which is lacking and causing you to make uneducated and untrue statements.

So now you have again been prove wrong are you going to shut up! And give the educated a rest from your uneducated and proven untrue assertions?


Really. 13 written by Paul. 3 by John, 2 by Peter and 1 by James and Jude?

Which website claims this?

Everybody else on the planet KNOWS that only 7 letters were probably written by 'Paul'., the rest were accredited to "Paul" to give gravitas to their claims. I.E. Forgeries.

As for J.P.J2 and J3.. all anonymous I'm afraid.. yet more lies propagated by the "Church".

Think on it this way.

Is the Qu'ran the true word of God?

Did the Qu'ran ever attract you when it came to God?

We can see the end and the beginning of the Qu'ran and why it never came from God, that is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Would any religion actually shape up to the Messiah promised in Judaism.
Has there been a nation more persecuted since the beginning of time than the Jews?
Those whose God Keeps the promises made in his word.

We think differently you and I. You don't look at religions with the possibility of a real God existing.
So you never see the real value of truth within those religions.
There has only ever been one religion where the God actually does as he promises.

When are you going to acknowledge that the evidence has always been there. All that is left is the decision.

[Sassy]

It is mainstream Christian teaching, floo.  You would have been taught the same, as I was.  You may consider it 'unsubstantiated' of course, as you no longer believe, but it is what the vast majority of Christians believe.

It isn't the belief, it is the claim of the belief saying what I have said about it is unsubstantiated when as you agree the belief exists... She is not educated and never had any religion rammed down her throat. Just rebelled without just cause.
We have no evidence that is was anything but her rebellion. Her lack of knowledge would show no religious belief ever got near her.

[floo]

It isn't the belief, it is the claim of the belief saying what I have said about it is unsubstantiated when as you agree the belief exists... She is not educated and never had any religion rammed down her throat. Just rebelled without just cause.
We have no evidence that is was anything but her rebellion. Her lack of knowledge would show no religious belief ever got near her.

You really do talk garbage Sass about things of which you have no knowledge, it was ever thus!

[jjohnjil]

It beggars belief that in this day and age, in the 21st C, there are people who actually believe this nonsense!

Sassy, please look at these stories with some degree of reality.  Those Old Testament stories were written over 3000 years ago when they could be forgiven for thinking we were magically created.  They sacrificed animals in the hope that their crops would grow, they tried to reassure their people by saying that there was some great magician in the sky looking after them, they did their best for their time but we have learned quite a lot since those days. We have realised, for over three hundred years now, that they got those things wrong.   

If the wise men who wrote Genesis could have our knowledge they would laugh at someone still believing the stuff that came out of their vivid imaginations three millennia ago!

Oh, and it would be nicer of you if you thanked the hospital staff as well as your god for your relative's recovery in the prayer section.

 

[ippy]

It beggars belief that in this day and age, in the 21st C, there are people who actually believe this nonsense!

Sassy, please look at these stories with some degree of reality.  Those Old Testament stories were written over 3000 years ago when they could be forgiven for thinking we were magically created.  They sacrificed animals in the hope that their crops would grow, they tried to reassure their people by saying that there was some great magician in the sky looking after them, they did their best for their time but we have learned quite a lot since those days. We have realised, for over three hundred years now, that they got those things wrong.   

If the wise men who wrote Genesis could have our knowledge they would laugh at someone still believing the stuff that came out of their vivid imaginations three millennia ago!

Oh, and it would be nicer of you if you thanked the hospital staff as well as your god for your relative's recovery in the prayer section.

 

100% with you jj on this; some of us have tried to get poor old Sass away from, the so well summed up by Bluehillside, her circular attempt at reasoning in all biblical matters.

Usually when you ask Sass to explain anything that might challenge her reasoning, or lack of reasoning, is followed by abuse in various amounts, in place of answers.

I have asked Sass where she gets her validation of the words she quotes, at ever increasing lengths,  from this bible of hers; a validation that the words in her book are actually sourced from this he she or it thing, whatever it might be, she refers to as god, to date no answer, only abuse dressed up in various forms one way or another.

ippy 

[jjohnjil]

100% with you jj on this; some of us have tried to get poor old Sass away from, the so well summed up by Bluehillside, her circular attempt at reasoning in all biblical matters.

Usually when you ask Sass to explain anything that might challenge her reasoning, or lack of reasoning, is followed by abuse in various amounts, in place of answers.

I have asked Sass where she gets her validation of the words she quotes, at ever increasing lengths,  from this bible of hers; a validation that the words in her book are actually sourced from this he she or it thing, whatever it might be, she refers to as god, to date no answer, only abuse dressed up in various forms one way or another.

ippy

I know, ippy, a lot of people, including many believers, have tried to make her look at her thinking in a new light.  Nothing ever seems to get through and you have to feel sorry for anyone who has been so thoroughly indoctrinated that they believe every word, however ridiculous.

I don't think there's any real likelihood that our Sassy will ever change but as long as she has her views challenged and countered, it's all that can be done I suppose.

[Khatru]

So often we stray from the path of reality because we look too hard at the inconsequential matters.
The Epistles were mainly aimed at the uneducated in the way of the OT and Jewish religion.
However, though they were to explain they were not there to take the place of the Way and the Truth.

The letters written to people and the church in different parts of the world explained and gave instruction to the elders and believers in each church. What it did not do and cannot do is replace Christ and the way of coming to God the Father through him. The word of God is given to us through the Spirit. It is through Gods Spirit the individual receives the truth from God.

There is no aim at anyone but the persons they were sent to.

Please excuse me while I recalibrate my irony meter.

The path of reality

you say?

That'll be your reality but not mine.  A reality full of magic where man is not in control of his own destiny and we're  little more than pawns in a game between a couple of cosmic mega-beings.  A reality where humans are constantly beset by demons.  Where a snake and donkey can talk.  Where you can find giants, dragons, unicorns, etc.  Where thousands of people come back from the dead.  I could go on but I'm sure you get my drift.

[floo]

There is no reality about the Biblical god and a lot of the stuff in the Bible! At best there are a few wise words written by some of the authors, but for the most part it is a book of less than credible myths.

[Sassy]

It beggars belief that in this day and age, in the 21st C, there are people who actually believe this nonsense!

Sassy, please look at these stories with some degree of reality.  Those Old Testament stories were written over 3000 years ago when they could be forgiven for thinking we were magically created.  They sacrificed animals in the hope that their crops would grow, they tried to reassure their people by saying that there was some great magician in the sky looking after them, they did their best for their time but we have learned quite a lot since those days. We have realised, for over three hundred years now, that they got those things wrong.   

If the wise men who wrote Genesis could have our knowledge they would laugh at someone still believing the stuff that came out of their vivid imaginations three millennia ago!

Oh, and it would be nicer of you if you thanked the hospital staff as well as your god for your relative's recovery in the prayer section.

 

You don't get it do you. Like those people in the bible I know God.
The reality is not what you read but the truth and power of the God behind those words.
You live for you and no it isn't okay because you and your loved ones miss out on the power and presence in your life of the one person who defines it's meaning,

So what there are a couple of people or so fighting a corner. But  a corner where you have no hope, nothing outside yourselves which is able to sustain on help you with life.

The truth is you have never gone beyond your own pride and selfish reasoning.
My life has been incredibly difficult at times. It is fair to say many of you would never survive.
However, the truth about God is not dependent on our feelings or what the book says. The truth is dependent on the being who is God. No matter how hard life might get or be, the one sustaining truth within this universe and world is the existence of God the creator.

My family and I, go through much difficult times. But I believe I will live to see the LORD's goodness to me in this life.
What I do not need is people reflecting their own pessimistic and lack of belief at me. We who believe know that our circumstances do not change who God is. Whilst difficult for a time God will come and take us to another level and provide our needs.

You choose what you will but I will serve the LORD, because that truth never changes regardless of the world or people.
You choose your own way, I choose the LORD's way.