Jesus is the Son of God...

[Sassy]

The OT tells us he will come and the NT tells us what he said when he had come.

More importantly the OT tells us the New Covenant will  not be like the Old.

Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jesus knew the new Covenant would be people who lived as he did.
By the power of the truth about Jesus and the baptism of the Holy Spirit who brings life to all believers.

The first believers believed what the Disciples taught about Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:35-45.

We see Peter tell everyone about Jesus Christ and they believe and receive the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the power of God in the believer to live as Christ. To know God and to be part of Gods Kingdom. It is a reality which means not a written covenant but a living covenant of power in Gods people to be the people and more importantly the Children of God.

It appears many have lost sight of the truth. Gods people are people of power and whose love comes from God himself.

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

What a person believes in their heart decides what the person will receive.
Christianity is not a mere matter of words but power and change in the persons life.

For myself personally, it is a journey and everyone reaches each milestone by the grace and glory of God manifested in his truth through the Prophets to the final words of Christ himself.

It is a harsh realisation for some that Jesus is the way his life the example and that every believer like Jesus should have power in their lives.  But the atheist has nothing but the bitter knowledge that they lock themselves out of all the things they need and that would help them live life in fullness here knowing of the better hope to come.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God. I believe God is faithful and that the New Covenant is about the inner man changing by the power of Gods truth and Spirit.

[Maeght]

Good morning Sassy,

I have a genuine question as to your purpose for posting that. It mostly seems like a genuine expression of your beliefs posted on a Christian topic section which is all fine but amongst it you make a comment about atheists which is bound to provoke comments back and set off another thread where people snipe at each other and get sarcsatic. It will be pointed out that this is 'just your beliefs' and there won't be any real discussion so I just wondered what the purpose of the post was.

[floo]

Most Jews didn't see Jesus as their promised Messiah and are still awaiting his arrival.

I am of the opinion it was the gospels writers who suggest Jesus was the promised Messiah. We would probably have never heard of Jesus after he died, if Paul hadn't been such a prolific writer and the creator of the Christian religion.

[~TW~]

Most Jews didn't see Jesus as their promised Messiah and are still awaiting his arrival.

I am of the opinion it was the gospels writers who suggest Jesus was the promised Messiah. We would probably have never heard of Jesus after he died, if Paul hadn't been such a prolific writer and the creator of the Christian religion.

 Floo this post of yours is silly.
~TW~

[trippymonkey]

Didn't the Jews have a VERY strict code of what this awaited prophet would be like? A prophet would have to fit ALL these criteria & if not then he would be rejected & possibly put to death ?

From what I gather Jesus didn't fulfill all these details or did the Jews misunderstand their own rules ??

Nick

[Ricky Spanish]

Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now this is exactly what the gospel writers did, scoured the Septuagint looking for any verses to plunder as "as it says in the scripture".

This is NOT a messianic passage, but someone assuring his nation, his race that their god has not forgotten them.

Always makes me laugh when evil genitals try to shoehorn these sort of passages up Jesus' passage!!

Acts 10:35-45

Nice little story, but that is all it is. Written by some anonymous blokes decades after "Jesus'" execution by the Romans.

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Again, a lovely little story. Written by someone who had never met Jesus, but had heard enough about him to believe he could give more flesh to the character than was being peddled at the time.

It has been determined that John was written by a highly educated Greek aristocrat in the late 1st century. ( 90-120 C.E.   http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html ) at the very least some 60 years after the execution of "Jesus". So not really an "eyewitness" account now is it?

[2Corrie]

Most Jews didn't see Jesus as their promised Messiah and are still awaiting his arrival.

I am of the opinion it was the gospels writers who suggest Jesus was the promised Messiah. We would probably have never heard of Jesus after he died, if Paul hadn't been such a prolific writer and the creator of the Christian religion.

Do you think that Paul orchestrated the destruction of the Temple to tie in with Luke 19:44 too ?

[Ricky Spanish]

What now?

Was "Luke" a witness to Jesus' ministry?

[Sassy]

Good morning Sassy,

I have a genuine question as to your purpose for posting that. It mostly seems like a genuine expression of your beliefs posted on a Christian topic section which is all fine but amongst it you make a comment about atheists which is bound to provoke comments back and set off another thread where people snipe at each other and get sarcsatic. It will be pointed out that this is 'just your beliefs' and there won't be any real discussion so I just wondered what the purpose of the post was.

Stirring the pot again. Isn't that what the genuine not question about?

Your view is incorrect also prejudicial and without foundation.  Seems you atheist cannot take your own credit and responsibility for stirring.

[Maeght]

Stirring the pot again. Isn't that what the genuine not question about?

Your view is incorrect also prejudicial and without foundation.  Seems you atheist cannot take your own credit and responsibility for stirring.

Its a genuine question. I didn't express a view. What was the purpose of the post?

[Sassy]

Now this is exactly what the gospel writers did, scoured the Septuagint looking for any verses to plunder as "as it says in the scripture".

This is NOT a messianic passage, but someone assuring his nation, his race that their god has not forgotten them.

Always makes me laugh when evil genitals try to shoehorn these sort of passages up Jesus' passage!!

However you phrase your reply it won't change the fact that the writings are the PROMISE of a new Covenant.
God is not a liar and I have never seen such a reply which denies the passage which clearly confirms a new covenant.
As the Jews knew the Messiah would bring Gods final truth we see that covenant clearly taught by Christ.
You can wriggle all you want but the new covenant came in through Christ and the Messiah. What proves it clearly is that Gods people always have had a covenant with him. Abraham having the first covenant.


 

Nice little story, but that is all it is. Written by some anonymous blokes decades after "Jesus'" execution by the Romans.

The proof of the passage is clearly in doing what they did upon hearing about Christ.
So again your answer is a little bit like bad eggs.

Again, a lovely little story. Written by someone who had never met Jesus, but had heard enough about him to believe he could give more flesh to the character than was being peddled at the time.

It has been determined that John was written by a highly educated Greek aristocrat in the late 1st century. ( 90-120 C.E.   http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html ) at the very least some 60 years after the execution of "Jesus". So not really an "eyewitness" account now is it?

Once again you need to read the bible and realise that believers now as in Jeremiah 31:31-34 do not any longer rely on a written word or covenant. They rely on the truth of that covenant.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Sin  blocked the way for man to know God. Christ removed that veil. As the Prophets and Christ before them, the believers now are taught by God himself by the presence of Gods Spirit within them.
So not like the old covenant by the obeying of the words but by the change within being taught by the giver of the words to men the Holy Spirit.

Christ told us... " My words are Spirit and they are life."  It was the anointing of the Spirit, even with the disciples in acts 2 that made them the children of God and able to perform all the miracles they did.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

John 16:13... You can really see the reality in the bible by the actual truths that happen within the pages.

Belief in Christ and the receiving of the Holy Spirit are what make the children of God part of the Covenant of Christ.
The reason Christ tells us if we obey his words we will KNOW (experience) the truth and it will set us free.

King James Bible
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Spirit and Truth are the main vein of truth throughout the bible. OT and NT....

[Sassy]

Its a genuine question. I didn't express a view. What was the purpose of the post?

In that case remove your posts from the thread they are not relevant to it.

[Maeght]

In that case remove your posts from the thread they are not relevant to it.

It's not up to you where I post or not.

My post was about the OP of this thread so is relevant. You might not want to answer but it is a genuine question as to why you included a comment on atheists and what you were intending to achieve by that.

[floo]

I am of the opinion words were put into the mouth of Jesus by the gospel writers to fit in with so called prophecies.

[Maeght]

Stirring the pot again. Isn't that what the genuine not question about?

Your view is incorrect also prejudicial and without foundation.  Seems you atheist cannot take your own credit and responsibility for stirring.

So lets take a look. You start a thread with a post in which you include a negative comment about atheists, I ask what the purpose of the post was, and you think I'm 'stirring the pot'.

[floo]

So lets take a look. You start a thread with a post in which you include a negative comment about atheists, I ask what the purpose of the post was, and you think I'm 'stirring the pot'.

But of course Sass thinks she is the fount of all knowledge where the Bible is concerned, whilst non believers are ignorant of its contents and bound for hell, LOL!

[Sassy]

Its a genuine question. I didn't express a view. What was the purpose of the post?

Opening post:-

Jesus is the Son of God...
« on: May 13, 2016, 07:34:54 AM »
QuoteModifyRemove
The OT tells us he will come and the NT tells us what he said when he had come.

More importantly the OT tells us the New Covenant will  not be like the Old.

Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jesus knew the new Covenant would be people who lived as he did.
By the power of the truth about Jesus and the baptism of the Holy Spirit who brings life to all believers.

The first believers believed what the Disciples taught about Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:35-45.

We see Peter tell everyone about Jesus Christ and they believe and receive the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the power of God in the believer to live as Christ. To know God and to be part of Gods Kingdom. It is a reality which means not a written covenant but a living covenant of power in Gods people to be the people and more importantly the Children of God.

It appears many have lost sight of the truth. Gods people are people of power and whose love comes from God himself.

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

What a person believes in their heart decides what the person will receive.
Christianity is not a mere matter of words but power and change in the persons life.

For myself personally, it is a journey and everyone reaches each milestone by the grace and glory of God manifested in his truth through the Prophets to the final words of Christ himself.

It is a harsh realisation for some that Jesus is the way his life the example and that every believer like Jesus should have power in their lives.  But the atheist has nothing but the bitter knowledge that they lock themselves out of all the things they need and that would help them live life in fullness here knowing of the better hope to come.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God. I believe God is faithful and that the New Covenant is about the inner man changing by the power of Gods truth and Spirit.
Modify message

There is the comment about atheists it is clear that in contrast to the believer they have 'bitter knowledge' so locking themselves out of all things they need and that would help them live life in fullness here knowing of the better hope.

Show me an atheist who had the fullness of life which comes from the better hope of Christ.

If you can't it proves you are stirring the pot. Because I said nothing which in your words would and I quote you...

Quote from: Maeght on May 13, 2016, 08:13:01 AM
comment about atheists which is bound to provoke comments back and set off another thread where people snipe at each other and get sarcsatic.

There was nothing in what I said which would for any reason cause atheists to snipe at each other or get sarcastic.
I was simply speaking the truth which comes from a faith point of view and appertains to faith.
We can all enjoy our lives but I was speaking of spiritual life through faith and hope.
Which correctly would not apply to an atheist.

Maybe you could not understand the difference.

[Maeght]

But of course Sass thinks she is the fount of all knowledge where the Bible is concerned, whilst non believers are ignorant of its contents and bound for hell, LOL!

I make no comment on Sassy's knowledge of the Bible.

[Maeght]

Opening post:-

There is the comment about atheists it is clear that in contrast to the believer they have 'bitter knowledge' so locking themselves out of all things they need and that would help them live life in fullness here knowing of the better hope.

Show me an atheist who had the fullness of life which comes from the better hope of Christ.

If you can't it proves you are stirring the pot. Because I said nothing which in your words would and I quote you...
 
There was nothing in what I said which would for any reason cause atheists to snipe at each other or get sarcastic.
I was simply speaking the truth which comes from a faith point of view and appertains to faith.
We can all enjoy our lives but I was speaking of spiritual life through faith and hope.
Which correctly would not apply to an atheist.

Maybe you could not understand the difference.

There seemed no reason to mention atheists in your OP so I ask again - what was the purpose of your post?

[Sassy]

There seemed no reason to mention atheists in your OP so I ask again - what was the purpose of your post?

Explain as a Christian why there was no need. Are you really that ignorant?

What is the opposite to being a believer that Jesus is the Son of God and life in all it's fullness?

Well go on then... Now who looks utterly stupid? YOU.

You want an argument over something nothing to do with the thread then start a new thread. But either post on the subject or be ignored. You see, we don't have to argue with someone who is not on topic.

[Sassy]

Didn't the Jews have a VERY strict code of what this awaited prophet would be like? A prophet would have to fit ALL these criteria & if not then he would be rejected & possibly put to death ?

From what I gather Jesus didn't fulfill all these details or did the Jews misunderstand their own rules ??

Nick

Not at all.. The truth is that Pharisees and Sadducees each existed with contrary beliefs because it was believed the Messiah would bring the final truth as explained in John 4 by the Samaritan woman at the well.
The Jews were not sure of all the truth but they even had the idea he would be a great warrior similar to David.
But they failed to see that David having blood on his hands could not build the Temple he wanted for God.
So Solomon had to build the Temple.
We can see from decisions God makes that his Messiah would not have blood/murder or killing on his hands.

Jesus was the Messiah and his Kingdom was not based on worldly wisdom and fighting but on truth and peace.

So the truth was that some would accept Christ, the disciples were all Jews.
But what people fail to see is that Christians are called Christians because of an insult. In truth the gentile has been grafted into the tree and now we are in fact Jews but not of the Abraham but those who come into the Kingdom of God through Christ.

A way for both Jew and Gentile to come together and know God.

Jesus was the stumbling block the Jews rejected till the number of Gentiles called. Even now Jews are coming to Christ.

[floo]

As has been said many times there is no evidence at all that Jesus was a by blow of god, or anymore than a human with a big opinion of himself. Yes he said and did some wise things if reported correctly, but he also said and did things which weren't right or good.

[Maeght]

Explain as a Christian why there was no need. Are you really that ignorant?

What is the opposite to being a believer that Jesus is the Son of God and life in all it's fullness?

Well go on then... Now who looks utterly stupid? YOU.

You want an argument over something nothing to do with the thread then start a new thread. But either post on the subject or be ignored. You see, we don't have to argue with someone who is not on topic.

I have no interest in getting into an argument with you or anyone else Sassy. I'd much rather threads didn't break down into the exchange of snipping and name calling which is so common on here - which was precisely why I wondered why you mentioned atheists in the way you did in the OP. Ignore my posts if you like - I won't lose any sleep over it.

[trippymonkey]

Weren't the Jews expecting some kind of warrior prophet to free them from the Romans

Also, can we be sure certain verses weren't 'inserted-invented' later on to make sure it looked like Jesus WAS the awaited One ??

Nick

[Sassy]

Weren't the Jews expecting some kind of warrior prophet to free them from the Romans

Also, can we be sure certain verses weren't 'inserted-invented' later on to make sure it looked like Jesus WAS the awaited One ??

Nick

The Jews truly did not really know what to expect. But in the time of Moses he never went to war did he?
God protected them without their own fighting a war or Moses leading them into a war.
So the Messiah a Prophet like unto Moses. 

The truth is Moses lead them into a new life with a new way of living under the LORD God.
Just as Christ has done he has lead believers into a new life and way of living with us knowing God.

Sometime we have to take all things into account. God is the God of the living not the dead.
Yes he made us all, but his people know him.