What/Who is a Christian

[jjohnjil]

Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
~TW~

Thanks, ThreatsrWus

[~TW~]

I don't need to that's just the way it is with logic.

Jesus did and said NOTHING until you provide the evidence that he did.

If you cannot do that, then the default positions stands.

You wish FDS
~TW~

[bluehillside Retd.]

jj,

Thanks, ThreatsrWus

The irony of T(roll)W's green-inked rantings about muslims is that he's more likely to be an agent of his dystopian vision than rationalists are. By advocating faith as a reliable means of knowing something, he unwittingly validates others who would say the same about their faiths. The point about secularism in particular is that it provides a safe space for faiths of all sorts to operate as private members clubs but it also functions as a bulwark agains any that would overreach into arrogating to themselves rights and privileges beyond that.

[Shaker]

You wish FDS
~TW~

BR is right. That's how logic works. You're committing what's known as the negative proof fallacy, also known as the appeal to ignorance. Hope is usually the great one for this; in his absence evidently you've taken it over.

[bluehillside Retd.]

You wish FDS

As I said just now, you can point to the fallacious thinking of the T(roll)W's of this world as much as you like (in this case the negative proof fallacy) but they just don't care. Really, they don't - however desperately wrong their attempts at coherent argument, they don't care.

It's weird watching one of Satan's little helpers at work like this, but there it is nonetheless.

[~TW~]

As I said just now, you can point to the fallacious thinking of the T(roll)W's of this world as much as you like (in this case the negative proof fallacy) but they just don't care. Really, they don't - however desperately wrong their attempts at coherent argument, they don't care.

It's weird watching one of Satan's little helpers at work like this, but there it is nonetheless.

 Please do the same as toe find something that made itself.

 ~TW~
ps back later.

[Sebastian Toe]

Please do the same as toe find something that made itself.

 ~TW~
ps back later.

Bawbag. 

[BeRational]

You wish FDS
~TW~

Not really, that's just the way it is.

I did not make the rules, that's just the way they are.

[BeRational]

Please do the same as toe find something that made itself.

 ~TW~
ps back later.

What makes you think something made itself?

Did your god makes itself, or do you not worry about that detail?

[floo]

What makes you think something made itself?

Did your god makes itself, or do you not worry about that detail?

I have asked many times who made god, if I get an answer at all, it is that it was always there, which is no answer at all.

[BeRational]

I have asked many times who made god, if I get an answer at all, it is that it was always there, which is no answer at all.

Quite. If god can always have been there, so can a multiverse.

[Dicky Underpants]

Well what ever I do one thing is for sure I am born again and I am miles ahead of you,so get some sleep and rest and try again.
~TW~

I hope you've seriously considered Matthew 7, 15-23. There is a line towards the end of Bunyan's PP which is worth considering, for those who are so sure....

[Khatru]

Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
~TW~

Given the rapid and imminent extinction of Christianity in the UK, I can see why you say that.

However, we are a secular nation and having kicked one load of superstitious mumbo jumbo into touch, we're hardly likely to embrace another one.

[Sebastian Toe]

Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government
~TW~

Could you please be more specific regarding 'in a few years time'?

You wouldn't want people thinking that you are just talking from your bahookie now would you? 

[Nearly Sane]

Could you please be more specific regarding 'in a few years time'?

You wouldn't want people thinking that you are just talking from your bahookie now would you? 

Bahookie - great word!

[Stranger]

You wouldn't want people thinking that you are just talking from your bahookie now would you? 

It's never bothered him before...

[Hope]

ipster,

Ignorance is no excuse. The point though about T(roll)W, Hope et al is that, however bad their arguments, they just don't care. See, they know - they really, really know at least in their heads, and the fact that any attempt to demonstrate their confidence in that knowledge collapses immediately into logical fallacies matters to them not a jot. They just ignore the problem, divert the conversation away from it and hope no-one notices. Then, when it's all gone quiet for a bit, they sneak back and attempt the same bad thinking that undermined them the last time.   

Interestingly, bh, I made exactly the same point about some of your fellow-travellers' argumentation skills a couple of weeks back.

And that's the mistake of the more rational here I think. We assume that, if you explain why 2+2=4 and not 5 using argument, evidence, reason etc then the 2+2=5 claimant will just change his mind. When it comes to religious belief though, he won't. Never ever ever. No matter how bad the arguments for it, it's hard wired and that's all there is to it.

I think a better analogy is when those on this side of the debate suggest that 2+2=10 - an analogy I have used before, but can't remember whether it was on this site or another one.   

Depressing innit?

Couldn't agree more, blue.  It depends on whether one is tuned into a single way of looking at reality, or whether (as with the 2+2=10 concept) one is willing to look at other ways as well.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Interestingly, bh, I made exactly the same point about some of your fellow-travellers' argumentation skills a couple of weeks back.

Such as? Take a few prime examples from yourself:

You: Actually a naturalistic outcome can be ruled out (or words to that effect).

Me et al. : How can you know that?

You: silence:

+++++++++++++++++=

You: Unless you are suggesting that God can sin:

Me: How have you exclude the possibility that God can commit/order genocide. Couldn't these other possibilities have cured the issue.

You: You want God to make robots! (something irrelevant anyway).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

Me, et al. Where is the evidence for non naturalistic evidence and how do you know they are non naturalists

you: Claims about a resurrection with no means of showing how they demonstrate an actual resurrection.

[Shaker]

Interestingly, bh, I made exactly the same point about some of your fellow-travellers' argumentation skills a couple of weeks back.

So you put the negative proof fallacy on hold in order to indulge in a spot of tu quoque.

I think a better analogy is when those on this side of the debate suggest that 2+2=10 - an analogy I have used before, but can't remember whether it was on this site or another one.

A score says it was somewhere else.

[Hope]

As long as people practise their faith in a moderate way, and don't try to convert others with threats, I have absolutely no problem with it.

I'm still waiting to meet a Christian who does this, Floo.

[Hope]

So you put the negative proof fallacy on hold in order to indulge in a spot of tu quoque.

No, just pointing out that, perhaps unintentionally (?) you have indulged in the latter.

A score says it was somewhere else.

Think I've used the concept before here, but not that particular one.

[Hope]

Such as? Take a few prime examples from yourself:

You: Actually a naturalistic outcome can be ruled out (or words to that effect).

Me et al. : How can you know that?

You: silence:

I did respond to that, Stephen, but some days later, as work had made my use of the forum pretty limited - and still does.

You: Unless you are suggesting that God can sin:

Me: How have you exclude the possibility that God can commit/order genocide. Couldn't these other possibilities have cured the issue.

You: You want God to make robots! (something irrelevant anyway).

Have a vague memory of this exchange, but seem to remember that that second comment of mine came several exchanges later - not immediately, as you imply here.

Me, et al. Where is the evidence for non naturalistic evidence and how do you know they are non naturalists

you: Claims about a resurrection with no means of showing how they demonstrate an actual resurrection.

Don't recall that first statement of 'yours et al'. 

[Hope]

Given the rapid and imminent extinction of Christianity in the UK, I can see why you say that.

Whilst it may be losing numbers, do you have any evidence that it's extinction is either rapid, imminent or even likely?  For instance, I know of several churches that are currently growing as people who have never had a faith are beginning to find one.

[Brownie]

Quote from: ~TW~ on May 16, 2016, 11:15:52 AM
Yes the way I see it in a few years time this country will have an all Muslim Government so all under Sharia law you atheist will suffer badly hands chopped off and so on probably murdered and then hell the Christian Gods hell so give it time remember you were warned.
~TW~

Given the rapid and imminent extinction of Christianity in the UK, I can see why you say that.

However, we are a secular nation and having kicked one load of superstitious mumbo jumbo into touch, we're hardly likely to embrace another one.

Despite the media coverage which gives the impression practically every other person is a Muslim, the percentage of Muslims in this country is very small indeed.  Growing for sure, atm, but not at such a rate that we will end up having an all-Muslim government.  No-one would want that so we won't have it, it wouldn't be representative of this country.

We do now have a Muslim mayor though - whoo hoo!  A true Londoner too.

[Gordon]

Whilst it may be losing numbers, do you have any evidence that it's extinction is either rapid, imminent or even likely?

I originally posted this link in the 'downward trend continues thread' but it applies here: in this neck of the woods your religion is on the decline, Hope, whether you like it or not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35953639

For instance, I know of several churches that are currently growing as people who have never had a faith are beginning to find one.

Anecdotal, and even if there are such instances the wider picture (as noted in the link above) tells a different story.