A very disturbing story!

[floo]

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/mentally-ill-man-attempts-suicide-after-clinic-replaces-his-meds-with-bible-study/

I came across this disgusting story on another forum. The 'Christians' perpetrating this infamy should be hanging their nasty heads in shame.

Sadly this story is not unique. A few years ago a cousin of mine had a visit from a fundie Christian, who suggested his mental illness was caused by a demon, and if he asked god's forgiveness he would be cured. A couple of days later he attempted suicide! He now hides himself away in a room the size of a cupboard!

[Brownie]

It certainly is disturbing floo.  I've heard people say that you ''shouldn't'' have a mental illness if you are a Christian. You have to claim healing.  Actually that also applies to physical ailments, I can remember my poor mother-in-law (who had Parkinson's, cancer, diabetes, heart failure), being treated to that by a lady from her church.  She was really upset after the lady left the house.  I told the curate who was a regular visitor and she was going to have a word.  It was so wrong, my m-i-l was in her eighties and dying.

Of course I believe in prayer and healing but we all need medical treatment sometimes - and we're all gonna die one day.

You frequent some funny forums floo :-).  I didn't think places like that were still in existence.

[floo]

It certainly is disturbing floo.  I've heard people say that you ''shouldn't'' have a mental illness if you are a Christian. You have to claim healing.  Actually that also applies to physical ailments, I can remember my poor mother-in-law (who had Parkinson's, cancer, diabetes, heart failure), being treated to that by a lady from her church.  She was really upset after the lady left the house.  I told the curate who was a regular visitor and she was going to have a word.  It was so wrong, my m-i-l was in her eighties and dying.

Of course I believe in prayer and healing but we all need medical treatment sometimes - and we're all gonna die one day.

You frequent some funny forums floo :-).  I didn't think places like that were still in existence.

I got that one on a mainstream debate forum.

[Brownie]

Blimey.

[Rhiannon]

The worst story I heard was of a woman who had MS. She was prayed for and promised a cure; when it didn't happen she was told it was because she had 'unrepented sin' and she was told to leave the church that she belonged to.

I have Christian friends with severe depression; one self harms. And the vast majority of church leaders are woefully under-equipped to know how to deal with it.

[Hope]

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/mentally-ill-man-attempts-suicide-after-clinic-replaces-his-meds-with-bible-study/

I came across this disgusting story on another forum. The 'Christians' perpetrating this infamy should be hanging their nasty heads in shame.

Couldn't agree more, Floo.  The same can be said of a variety of sects and cults associated with a variety of philosophies who teach similar things.

[Rhiannon]

Couldn't agree more, Floo.  The same can be said of a variety of sects and cults associated with a variety of philosophies who teach similar things.

Indeed.

This one's about Christians though.

[Shaker]

Thank you for keeping at least some of us focused on the subject at hand without getting bogged down in irrelevant and off-topic digressions, Rhi

[Brownie]

The worst story I heard was of a woman who had MS. She was prayed for and promised a cure; when it didn't happen she was told it was because she had 'unrepented sin' and she was told to leave the church that she belonged to.

I have Christian friends with severe depression; one self harms. And the vast majority of church leaders are woefully under-equipped to know how to deal with it.

Terrible stories Rhiannon.  That poor lady with MS, how cruel.
I agree that church leaders are under-equipped to deal with depression but I don't think we should expect them to do any more than be kindly and supportive, they aren't therapists (unless they have trained in that field). 

I know about depression, was diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety several years ago.  Well, many years ago now.  I have learned to manage it without medication. People who've known me a while, like floo, know about it, it isn't a secret but I don't make a thing out of it.  I was a bit too open on forums years ago and quite hurt by some remarks.  People don't mean any harm, they just don't understand and it is unrealistic to expect them to unless they have similar experience.

[Rhiannon]

Been there, done that, Brownie. I have anxiety primarily, depression secondary. I'm reasonably open just because I never know who might need to hear something I have to say. And the more we talk about it the more it becomes a part of life in the same way as any other kind of illness is.

It's not a case of expecting church leaders to also be therapists or counsellors. They should have a basic training in how not to make things worse though.

[Brownie]

Yes you are right about that, Rhi.  I think the mainstream churches, clergy and others, are more in tune than the extremists.

Well Rhiannon I would never have guessed about you, bless you for sharing.

[Rhiannon]

Thank you. There's nothing about me that makes me any different from you, or anyone else with a mental illness. These things can happen to anyone.

[Brownie]

Yes it is but mental illness is definitely the poor relation of the health service.

[Rhiannon]

Shamefully so.

[Hope]

Indeed.

This one's about Christians though.

Oddly enough, all we have on this board is 'about Christians, though' as if it didn't happen in any other groups.  'These Christians' are so bad that we must attack them, but ignore any similar situations in any other group.

I'm not suggesting that Christians don't do such things, but the fact that it occurs in other groups - religious and non-religious alike - suggests that the 'Christian' element isn't the key element.

[Rhiannon]

Who said we should ignore it?

Floo provided a story about Christians. Feel free to provide as many as you like about other groups.

[Hope]

I got that one on a mainstream debate forum.

And, of course, many mainstream forums are populated by doctors, scientists, teachers, nurses, engineers, ...; as well as by farmers, the retired, young people, the unemployed, those with various physical and mental health issues, politicians, ...

Was the example you "got ... on a mainstream debate forum" representative of the whole forum, of one particular individual or of a particular group of posters?  After all, I doubt that anyone reading this debate board takes your posts, my posts, Shakes' post or Vlad's posts alone as representative of the board.

[Shaker]

I wonder what the Latin term is for whataboutery? Tu quoque is probably the closest related fallacy.

[Rhiannon]

I don't get the relevance of where Floo found it at all. Floo and Brownie discussed the fora that Floo uses but there's no relevance to the content of the link itself. It just provides more smoke and mirrors.

[Hope]

Rhi, if you notice, Floo uses 'Christians' in the OP - not simple Christians.  Now, is she questioning whether they really are Christians, is she trying to suggest that all Christians are like this, or what.  Even her own story, which refers to a fundie Christian, is somewhat all-embracing.  What or who does she mean by the term 'fundie Christian'?  Is she referring to evangelicalism, or a group such as Westboro Baptist, or what?

I also believe that we often, perhaps unintentionally, hide reality when we go after a particular group.  For instance, for decades it was assumed that domestic abuse was always a male on female issue - thnkfully we now know different, even if the majority are male on female.  Similarly, for years it bwas a ssumed that paedophiles had to be men - an understanding that is slowly unravelling.  Thirdly, and to repeat something I've already pointed out -

I'm not suggesting that Christians don't do such things, but the fact that it occurs in other groups - religious and non-religious alike - suggests that the 'Christian' element isn't the key element.

Post #15

[Shaker]

Let's not look at these here; what about we look at those over there ...

[Brownie]

I'll try and find something about non-Christian groups.
The Hassidic Jews tend to treat mental health problems in their own way but they are quite exclusive, we don't hear very much about what they do - unless anything goes seriously wrong and it gets into the news.
In the meantime, this old Guardian feature is quite interesting, albeit about evangelical Christians.  It's not horrible!
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/22/evangelical-christian-church-mental-illness

This is about Hindus:
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/Harsh_Mander/mental-illness-choice-and-rights/article4009222.ece

[Sriram]

Hindus, as a religious group, have no special views on the mentally ill. Hindus have no problems seeking medical intervention where required (if they can afford it).

Severe psychosis is a matter of taking care of the patient  for life. This can be difficult and even impossible for most people at home. Institutional care is the only option, but monetary considerations come in.  With millions still in poverty, this is a problem. 

In the case of mild or initial mental illness, depression etc. most people will seek medical help but will also adopt religious methods as a complementary treatment. Most mental illnesses that don't have a physiological origin are due to the ego and its maladjustment with the environment. Religion and faith can be of great help in such cases where the ego needs to be brought under control or needs to be bypassed. 

[Brownie]

Your posts are always interesting Sririam.  I agree with much of what you have said but I wouldn't consider depressive illness to be mild.  Obviously it isn't dangerous in the same way as psychosis, it is a totally different illness, but depression can be quite disabling.  Some of the medication on offer is not helpful, it doesn't suit everyone. 

[Sriram]

Your posts are always interesting Sririam.  I agree with much of what you have said but I wouldn't consider depressive illness to be mild.  Obviously it isn't dangerous in the same way as psychosis, it is a totally different illness, but depression can be quite disabling.  Some of the medication on offer is not helpful, it doesn't suit everyone.

Depression can be due to many causes. If it is physiological in origin, then medical treatment is necessary....but as you say, standard medicine may not be very useful. I know this will create a  major ruckus here  ....but I know that homeopathy can be very useful for depression.

For depression that is due to relationship problems, financial issues, loneliness or other lifestyle issues.....religion (or secular spirituality) can be very useful.