EU = Loss Of Our Freedom & Common Law.

[Jack Knave]

http://www.ukipdaily.com/rough-justice/

"Within the UK jurisdiction and in other common-law countries we are allowed to do whatever we please, provided only that there is no law that forbids it. On the continent the boot is firmly on the other foot – one may do only that which the law expressly permits!........Said quickly, there may not appear to be much difference, but in reality there is a world of difference, accounting not only for the fact that prior to joining the EU we were a truly free people – the European Arrest Warrant changed that – but, significantly, that common-law countries have, generally speaking, proved to be more inventive, more industrious, more entrepreneurial and more successful than those countries in which the legal system is purposely designed to maintain the supremacy of the State rather than the liberty of its people."

"...let us not forget the immortal words of a former American President, Benjamin Franklin, who, in stark contrast to the current holder of that great office, warned:"

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” 


Time to vote back our freedoms. Vote to Leave!

[Harrowby Hall]

http://www.ukipdaily.com/rough-justice/

"Within the UK jurisdiction and in other common-law countries we are allowed to do whatever we please, provided only that there is no law that forbids it. On the continent the boot is firmly on the other foot – one may do only that which the law expressly permits!........Said quickly, there may not appear to be much difference, but in reality there is a world of difference, accounting not only for the fact that prior to joining the EU we were a truly free people – the European Arrest Warrant changed that – but, significantly, that common-law countries have, generally speaking, proved to be more inventive, more industrious, more entrepreneurial and more successful than those countries in which the legal system is purposely designed to maintain the supremacy of the State rather than the liberty of its people."

"...let us not forget the immortal words of a former American President, Benjamin Franklin, who, in stark contrast to the current holder of that great office, warned:"

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” 


Time to vote back our freedoms. Vote to Leave!

That is almost how Isiah Berlin characterised freedom.

 "The two concepts are 'negative freedom', or freedom from interference, which Berlin derived from the British tradition, and 'positive freedom', or freedom as self-mastery, which asks not what we are free from, but what we are free to do. Berlin points out that these two different conceptions of liberty can clash with each other." (Wikipedia)

I think that - in its urgency to transmit a message it does not quite understand - UKIP's transliteration is close to caricature.

[SweetPea]

In a nutshell:

"......  in which the legal system is purposely designed to maintain the supremacy of the State rather than the liberty of its people."


"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.” ~ Vladimir Lenin

[Humph Warden Bennett]

http://www.ukipdaily.com/rough-justice/

"Within the UK jurisdiction and in other common-law countries we are allowed to do whatever we please, provided only that there is no law that forbids it. On the continent the boot is firmly on the other foot – one may do only that which the law expressly permits!........Said quickly, there may not appear to be much difference, but in reality there is a world of difference, accounting not only for the fact that prior to joining the EU we were a truly free people – the European Arrest Warrant changed that – but, significantly, that common-law countries have, generally speaking, proved to be more inventive, more industrious, more entrepreneurial and more successful than those countries in which the legal system is purposely designed to maintain the supremacy of the State rather than the liberty of its people."

"...let us not forget the immortal words of a former American President, Benjamin Franklin, who, in stark contrast to the current holder of that great office, warned:"

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” 


Time to vote back our freedoms. Vote to Leave!

So you would like this country to be a haven for foreign criminals?

[Brownie]

Like the Costa del Sol used to be for British criminals?
We have plenty of criminals here, home grown.  Why do you think some of the 'foreigners' who will come here are criminals?  No doubt we have some already, mafia style millionaires who traffic drugs and girls for a start.

It's very alarmist and typically UKRAP to suggest 'we' will become a haven for 'foreign' criminals.  What is a foreigner anyway, a fellow European perhaps.

[Jack Knave]

So you would like this country to be a haven for foreign criminals?

You what? 

How did you come to that conclusion?

[Jack Knave]

That is almost how Isiah Berlin characterised freedom.

 "The two concepts are 'negative freedom', or freedom from interference, which Berlin derived from the British tradition, and 'positive freedom', or freedom as self-mastery, which asks not what we are free from, but what we are free to do. Berlin points out that these two different conceptions of liberty can clash with each other." (Wikipedia)

I think that - in its urgency to transmit a message it does not quite understand - UKIP's transliteration is close to caricature.

You're going to have to explain yourself as you don't seem to have understood the issue. And you need to explain what the quote is actually addressing - which two concepts? I make no assumptions here about what is vaguely being aired here.

[Jack Knave]

In a nutshell:

"......  in which the legal system is purposely designed to maintain the supremacy of the State rather than the liberty of its people."


"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.” ~ Vladimir Lenin

Not too sure because of your unclear post but you sound like a Leaver....?

That is what the EU is doing, controlling everything (or trying to or that's their plan : Ever-Closer-Union) just as the USSR did.

[Jack Knave]

Like the Costa del Sol used to be for British criminals?
We have plenty of criminals here, home grown.  Why do you think some of the 'foreigners' who will come here are criminals?  No doubt we have some already, mafia style millionaires who traffic drugs and girls for a start.

It's very alarmist and typically UKRAP to suggest 'we' will become a haven for 'foreign' criminals.  What is a foreigner anyway, a fellow European perhaps.

A very weighted and bias bit of prose.

It is about self governess and the ability to control our own borders by choosing who we allow in and who we deport. It is a simple concept that even a chimp could understand yet those on the Remain side don't seem to grasp this easy to comprehend idea.

[SweetPea]

Not too sure because of your unclear post but you sound like a Leaver....?

That is what the EU is doing, controlling everything (or trying to or that's their plan : Ever-Closer-Union) just as the USSR did.

Yes, I'm for leaving. We are controlled by the EU, there is no democracy. The EU was devised so the masses could not control government, ever again.... power without accountability. Democracy means we should have the power to remove the people that govern us. They are meant to serve us, not rule us.   

[Aruntraveller]

Yes, I'm for leaving. We are controlled by the EU, there is no democracy. The EU was devised so the masses could not control government, ever again.... power without accountability. Democracy means we should have the power to remove the people that govern us. They are meant to serve us, not rule us.

All well and good - for that to make any sense you have got to completely revise our voting system to truly reflect the wishes of the electorate - otherwise the only outcome of an out vote would be the sustainment of a perpetual Tory govt under the spectacular guidance of Boris, Gove and Farage. There will still be no true democracy if we leave - at least if we stay we will retain some basic protections. Did you see IDS on TV - he can't wait for workers rights to be more 'flexible'.

Yeah, by flexible he means he gets them to bend over and shafts them even more than he does now.

[SweetPea]

The EU MEPs cannot initiate legislation; propose legislation or even the repeal of legislation, all of which comes from the unelected European commission.

At least, every five years we have a chance to vote for a possible change in government.

[Hope]

All well and good - for that to make any sense you have got to completely revise our voting system to truly reflect the wishes of the electorate - otherwise the only outcome of an out vote would be the sustainment of a perpetual Tory govt under the spectacular guidance of Boris, Gove and Farage. There will still be no true democracy if we leave - at least if we stay we will retain some basic protections. Did you see IDS on TV - he can't wait for workers rights to be more 'flexible'.

Yeah, by flexible he means he gets them to bend over and shafts them even more than he does now.

Sorry, Trent, if there was an out vote, I think that could be curtains for the Tories.  If anything, it would be curtains as far as holding power for the next 20-odd yars, at least, for all but UKIP with a few ex-Labour and ex-Tories.

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry, Trent, if there was an out vote, I think that could be curtains for the Tories.  If anything, it would be curtains as far as holding power for the next 20-odd yars, at least, for all but UKIP with a few ex-Labour and ex-Tories.

So you think if out, UKIP, a single issue part that would have just won would dominate?

[jakswan]

All well and good - for that to make any sense you have got to completely revise our voting system to truly reflect the wishes of the electorate - otherwise the only outcome of an out vote would be the sustainment of a perpetual Tory govt under the spectacular guidance of Boris, Gove and Farage. There will still be no true democracy if we leave - at least if we stay we will retain some basic protections. Did you see IDS on TV - he can't wait for workers rights to be more 'flexible'.

Yeah, by flexible he means he gets them to bend over and shafts them even more than he does now.

There is the rub I think, you can't convince the electorate to vote the way you want so at let the bureaucrats run the show.

[Nearly Sane]

There is the rub I think, you can't convince the electorate to vote the way you want so at let the bureaucrats run the show.

I suggest you reread Trent's post and maybe then apologise for the misrepresenting

[Harrowby Hall]

You're going to have to explain yourself as you don't seem to have understood the issue. And you need to explain what the quote is actually addressing - which two concepts? I make no assumptions here about what is vaguely being aired here.

Wrong. I understand the quotation all too well. It is you who lack the understanding.

What UKIP have done is taken one of the best-known statements on the nature of liberty made by any political theorist in the twentieth century and distorted it to fit their vacuous, negative, bankrupt philosophy.

[Aruntraveller]

There is the rub I think, you can't convince the electorate to vote the way you want so at let the bureaucrats run the show.

To nail my colours to the mast I would much prefer it if the electorate voted for Labour. However I am realistic enough to know that the likelihood of that is slim given Corbyn's leadership and the array of misinformation presented about him generally; added to which he has to deal with the malcontents in his own party. BUT I have for the last 30 years at least, argued that the electoral system needs reforming so that it more clearly reflects the opinions of voters. Many argue that leads to a lack of strong government. Well I could personally do with a bit less strength - because all the current lot seem to do with the strength is to use it to bully their way through everything.  So I was not arguing for bureaucrats to run the show - what I was arguing for was that the slim protection afforded for us via the EU should continue - and that allied to the fact that I have not seen any sensible argument that would explain how we won't be worse off financially leads me to the conclusion that we should stay in. To characterise that as wanting to be run by bureaucrats is quite frankly, disingenuous - and I must say worthy of either Boris, Michael or Nigel.

[Harrowby Hall]

Excellent post, Trent.

Well said.

[Aruntraveller]

The EU MEPs cannot initiate legislation; propose legislation or even the repeal of legislation, all of which comes from the unelected European commission.

At least, every five years we have a chance to vote for a possible change in government.

You are missing the point. We don't currently live in a true democracy. We have got a majority government in power on 37% of the popular vote. This is a an unrepresentative democracy. It's no good arguing that you want sovereignty (which frankly is a mirage in todays globalised economy) returned to the UK if all it gives you is the same old corrupt electoral system - which will never change under the 2 major parties. And the Lib Dems so beloved of Jakswan messed up the only opportunity they had to get some version of PR installed - so in thrall to Cameron was the Cleggster.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Trent,

You are missing the point. We don't currently live in a true democracy. We have got a majority government in power on 37% of the popular vote. This is a an unrepresentative democracy. It's no good arguing that you want sovereignty (which frankly is a mirage in todays globalised economy) returned to the UK if all it gives you is the same old corrupt electoral system - which will never change under the 2 major parties. And the Lib Dems so beloved of Jakswan messed up the only opportunity they had to get some version of PR installed - so in thrall to Cameron was the Cleggster.

Hmmm! Probably says more about me and my total dislike of this present Government but this Referendum bullshit, just another distraction from looking at what we should be focusing on, boy those Tories are better than Houdini.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

That the OP quite thinks that there is a single UK legal system all founded on common law is ironic and ignorant.

[jakswan]

To nail my colours to the mast I would much prefer it if the electorate voted for Labour. However I am realistic enough to know that the likelihood of that is slim given Corbyn's leadership and the array of misinformation presented about him generally; added to which he has to deal with the malcontents in his own party. BUT I have for the last 30 years at least, argued that the electoral system needs reforming so that it more clearly reflects the opinions of voters. Many argue that leads to a lack of strong government. Well I could personally do with a bit less strength - because all the current lot seem to do with the strength is to use it to bully their way through everything.  So I was not arguing for bureaucrats to run the show - what I was arguing for was that the slim protection afforded for us via the EU should continue - and that allied to the fact that I have not seen any sensible argument that would explain how we won't be worse off financially leads me to the conclusion that we should stay in. To characterise that as wanting to be run by bureaucrats is quite frankly, disingenuous - and I must say worthy of either Boris, Michael or Nigel.

Agree with you on voting reform. This 'slim protection' what does that mean?

[jeremyp]

http://www.ukipdaily.com/rough-justice/

"Within the UK jurisdiction and in other common-law countries we are allowed to do whatever we please, provided only that there is no law that forbids it. On the continent the boot is firmly on the other foot – one may do only that which the law expressly permits!"

Well that is obviously complete bollocks. Have you ever been to the Continent?

For example, I can guarantee you that there is nothing in French law that expressly permits you to pick your nose and yet if you do it in Paris, they won't arrest you.

[Jack Knave]

Yes, I'm for leaving. We are controlled by the EU, there is no democracy. The EU was devised so the masses could not control government, ever again.... power without accountability. Democracy means we should have the power to remove the people that govern us. They are meant to serve us, not rule us.

"...that government of the people, by the people, for the people,..."