Author Topic: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.  (Read 40222 times)

Gordon

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The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« on: December 11, 2015, 02:12:17 PM »
Moderator:

This OP has been created retrospectively to hold posts about different views of the Moon landings (and related matters) that were split off from a thread about evidence for theism.

Lunar enthusiasts now have this thread to continue the 'fact vs fiction' discussion. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 08:19:02 PM by Gordon »

Sassy

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 09:56:23 AM »
Dear Hope,

I have been following this forum for some time but have never registered to post as I feel I would rarely have the opportunity to reply to messages addressed to me.

However, you have driven me to it!

You frequently allude to other approaches to understanding reality apart from science. A recent example had been on the Alpha topic thread. You have said (sorry for the poor quality quoting as I don't yet know how to do it properly:

  • "They only fall at the first hurdle if science and the naturalistic approach to reality is the sole approach we have  - and you have yet to provide us with any evidence that that is the case - so, a good example of your use of tyhe negative proof fallacy on your part."

    "Science works, to a large extent.  Few, if any, Christians would disagree - however, you have never shown any evidence that it is the sole arbiter of reality"[/i][/u][/b]

Several posters have asked you to provide some details as to how we might know about this alternative approach but without answer.

Please, please please could you do so as I can't stand the suspense anymore. Just some basic outline as to go about discerning things that are likely true from things that are likely false.

Ta

Science is the probably the greatest illusion that man has ever invented. Things work because they tell us they work.
Gravity for instance.... We see the affect of gravity but no one understands why it is here and not on every planet in our solar system.

The fact remains that Science has got to establish itself as the ONLY truth and be proved beyond doubt independently of man in all fields and theory otherwise what is there that is truly true when it comes to all things in existence.
Where does the soul go after death? Why does a living thing exist with a soul/mind at all.
Science does not have the answer because God removed the true ingredient for life. He himself is the real force for all life which exists. It cannot be duplicated or found outside that already created or using what is created.
Scientist cannot create a man from soil and give him life.

This a ruse and I believe you obviously are here because you know someone already posting. Or maybe a past poster elsewhere. But you need to establish evidence for science for life before you expect anyone else to do so.

First clue why man or science will never create life from anything but the life that exists...

King James Bible
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;


Science cannot do what God did. It cannot take a handful of soil, make a human being and breath life into it.
That ends the matter as far as science is concerned. Sicence is man made and limited to man made ideas. Most which is like the emperors clothes a theory which they believe because they do not want to appear stupid. When in fact it shows them to be be what they try so hard not to be.

Man cannot find the answer to life because that source is completely....GOD.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 10:05:05 AM »
Quote
Science is the probably the greatest illusion that man has ever invented. Things work because they tell us they work.
Gravity for instance.... We see the affect of gravity but no one understands why it is here and not on every planet in our solar system.

The fact remains that Science has got to establish itself as the ONLY truth and be proved beyond doubt independently of man in all fields and theory otherwise what is there that is truly true when it comes to all things in existence.
Where does the soul go after death? Why does a living thing exist with a soul/mind at all.
Science does not have the answer because God removed the true ingredient for life. He himself is the real force for all life which exists. It cannot be duplicated or found outside that already created or using what is created.
Scientist cannot create a man from soil and give him life.

This a ruse and I believe you obviously are here because you know someone already posting. Or maybe a past poster elsewhere. But you need to establish evidence for science for life before you expect anyone else to do so.

First clue why man or science will never create life from anything but the life that exists...

King James Bible
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Science cannot do what God did. It cannot take a handful of soil, make a human being and breath life into it.
That ends the matter as far as science is concerned. Sicence is man made and limited to man made ideas. Most which is like the emperors clothes a theory which they believe because they do not want to appear stupid. When in fact it shows them to be be what they try so hard not to be.

Man cannot find the answer to life because that source is completely....GOD.

Blimey - it's only just March and already we have a clear winner for the 2016 "Most mistakes crammed into one post" prize. Should we just award it now?

Not all planets have gravity eh? Really?
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Shaker

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 10:50:49 AM »
Science is the probably the greatest illusion that man has ever invented. Things work because they tell us they work.
Gravity for instance.... We see the affect of gravity but no one understands why it is here and not on every planet in our solar system
No gravity on other planets.

Wow.

Just wow.

I ...

Wow.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sassy

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2016, 01:41:13 AM »
Blimey - it's only just March and already we have a clear winner for the 2016 "Most mistakes crammed into one post" prize. Should we just award it now?

Not all planets have gravity eh? Really?

Is gravity pulling us down or space pushing us down?

Full explanation of Einsteins theory of  relativity....

Does the movements of planets and the Sun and Moon affect these things?

Mock all you like but the moon has no oxygen and without the suits and the heavy gear they would have floated off...
Wait... doesn't that happen in films where people float off into space because their is nothing to tie them down.

I guess sometimes we have to see the bigger picture. No one can really prove anything about theory can they?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2016, 09:27:28 AM »
Sassy,

Quote
Is gravity pulling us down or space pushing us down?

Full explanation of Einsteins theory of  relativity....

Does the movements of planets and the Sun and Moon affect these things?

Mock all you like but the moon has no oxygen and without the suits and the heavy gear they would have floated off...
Wait... doesn't that happen in films where people float off into space because their is nothing to tie them down.

I guess sometimes we have to see the bigger picture. No one can really prove anything about theory can they?

Of course - after all the moon is well-known isn't it for all those pebbles and rocks just floating off it...

...oh no, wait - it isn't. Heavy suits or not, if not gravity what do you think it is that's acting on the astronauts to keep them on the surface? Glue? Tiny strings held in place by invisible pixies? What?

Sassy - everything with mass has a gravitational field - from the stars and planets to the pen in front of you. Can I suggest that you try a basic primer in physics before posting this kind of nonsense again?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 09:29:41 AM by bluehillside »
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Sebastian Toe

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2016, 09:44:27 AM »

Mock all you like but the moon has no oxygen and without the suits and the heavy gear they would have floated off...

Atmosphere does not = oxygen. The Earth's atmosphere is 78% nitrogen and only 20% oxygen.
Atmosphere does = gas of whatever composition and density.
And as such the moon does have an atmosphere. A very sparse one on comparison to ours but it does have one nonetheless.

(However the moon's atmosphere is so thin, atoms and molecules almost never collide. Instead, they are free to follow arcing paths determined by the energy they received from the processes described above and by the gravitational pull of the moon.)
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/news/lunar-atmosphere.html#.Vt1LxdAUnIU
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
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Gordon

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016, 09:54:37 AM »
Mock all you like but the moon has no oxygen and without the suits and the heavy gear they would have floated off...
Wait... doesn't that happen in films where people float off into space because their is nothing to tie them down.

You make it easy so though.

Without suits the lunar astronauts would have died of course, the lack of a breathable atmosphere and the temperature would have killed them. However, the Moon does have gravity, about a sixth of that on the surface of the Earth, so the astronauts wouldn't just float off into space since they weren't weightless.   

wigginhall

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2016, 10:12:33 AM »
Surely, the astronauts had big suckers on their feet, so as long as they kept one foot down, they were OK.  I'm sure actually, that if you watch the films of them walking, you can hear a 'squich squich' sound, this is probably the suckers doing their job.  I believe they were made in Wolverhampton, so that is a badge of quality, eh?

Remember, in space, no-one can hear you scream, but they can hear your suckers, you suckers.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

BeRational

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2016, 10:13:14 AM »
Is gravity pulling us down or space pushing us down?

Full explanation of Einsteins theory of  relativity....

Does the movements of planets and the Sun and Moon affect these things?

Mock all you like but the moon has no oxygen and without the suits and the heavy gear they would have floated off...
Wait... doesn't that happen in films where people float off into space because their is nothing to tie them down.

I guess sometimes we have to see the bigger picture. No one can really prove anything about theory can they?

You are confusing the Moons very limited atmosphere with gravity.

If the Earth had no air, you would still not float off, though of course you would die.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Sebastian Toe

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2016, 10:25:07 AM »


If the Earth had no air, you would still not float off, though of course you would die.
..unless you had a spacesuit to hand?  ;)
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

BeRational

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2016, 10:28:49 AM »
..unless you had a spacesuit to hand?  ;)

True, but you would not last long.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

ippy

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2016, 10:40:52 AM »
Isn't gravity something to do with mass distorting time and space; not a type of magnetic attraction?

ippy

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2016, 10:54:15 AM »
ippy,

Quote
Isn't gravity something to do with mass distorting time and space; not a type of magnetic attraction?

Yes - which is why everything that has mass also has a gravitational field, however tiny.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

BeRational

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2016, 11:08:00 AM »
ippy,

Yes - which is why everything that has mass also has a gravitational field, however tiny.

And I think I have read that is why gravity is not a force.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Sebastian Toe

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2016, 11:11:41 AM »
True, but you would not last long.

....you would if you had a very good supply of oxygen to continually replenish your suit with!  :D
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

BeRational

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2016, 12:49:58 PM »
....you would if you had a very good supply of oxygen to continually replenish your suit with!  :D

Air rather than oxygen, as oxygen is of course poisonous.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Sebastian Toe

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2016, 02:33:17 PM »
Air rather than oxygen, as oxygen is of course poisonous.
So we are agreed then, a spacesuit and a supply of breathable  gaseous life sustaining non poisonous air, then we are good to go?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

jeremyp

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2016, 08:21:13 PM »
Is gravity pulling us down or space pushing us down?
In terms of general relativity, the Earth is pushing us up and that is what we feel.

Quote
but the moon has no oxygen and without the suits and the heavy gear they would have floated off...
The Moon's gravity is vey light. Heavy things like rocks, astronauts and LEMs stay stuck to  it because of that. In GR terms, the Moon crates enough curvature of space-time to stop these things from flying away because of the centrifugal effect.

The same is true of the Earth, but the curvature it generates is so much  more that the atmosphere hasn't had time to boil away yet.

Wait... doesn't that happen in films where people float off into space because their is nothing to tie them down.

I guess sometimes we have to see the bigger picture. No one can really prove anything about theory can they?
[/quote]
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2016, 06:56:41 PM »
You make it easy so though.

Without suits the lunar astronauts would have died of course, the lack of a breathable atmosphere and the temperature would have killed them.
You need a space suit for the infinite void between methodological and ontological naturalism.

Sassy

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2016, 11:24:08 AM »
Sassy,

Of course - after all the moon is well-known isn't it for all those pebbles and rocks just floating off it...

...oh no, wait - it isn't. Heavy suits or not, if not gravity what do you think it is that's acting on the astronauts to keep them on the surface? Glue? Tiny strings held in place by invisible pixies? What?

Sassy - everything with mass has a gravitational field - from the stars and planets to the pen in front of you. Can I suggest that you try a basic primer in physics before posting this kind of nonsense again?

Did you not notice the pictures from the walks on the moon that the rocks had prop numbers on....LOL.

I suggest you wait till the evidence is in. It is God who keeps everything in it's place as it will be God who allows them to be shaken.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

How will the sun be darkened and the moon not give her light?

You know nothing but guess everything. What you have is what you are told....
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2016, 11:55:53 AM »
Sassy,

Quote
Did you not notice the pictures from the walks on the moon that the rocks had prop numbers on....LOL.

No I didn’t, for the perfectly good reason that there were no prop numbers to notice.

Quote
I suggest you wait till the evidence is in.

It is in. That’s why for example we can put satellites into orbit around other planets – something that could not happen if they did not have gravitational fields of their own.

Quote
It is God who keeps everything in it's place as it will be God who allows them to be shaken.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

That is an expression of your personal belief, yes.

Quote
How will the sun be darkened…

The Sun will be “darkened” in the same way that every other star is darkened – when the core runs out of hydrogen fuel, it will contract under the weight of gravity. When the core contracts it will heat up, causing the upper layers to expand. The radius of the star will increase and it will become a red giant. Later, the core will become hot enough to cause the helium to fuse into carbon. When the helium runs out the core will expand and cool, and the upper layers will expand and eject material that will collect around the dying star to form a planetary nebula. Finally, the core will cool into a white dwarf and then eventually into a black dwarf.

Quote
… and the moon not give her light?

The moon does not give light at all – it merely reflects light, mostly from the Sun.

Quote
You know nothing but guess everything. What you have is what you are told....

Given your elementary mistakes of fact so far I seem to know considerably more than you do, and I don’t need to be told that jumping out of a tenth storey window will cause me to hit the deck shortly afterwards. 

You are of course entitled to your own opinions, however bonkers; you are not though entitled to your own facts.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Maeght

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2016, 01:44:33 PM »
Mock all you like but the moon has no oxygen and without the suits and the heavy gear they would have floated off...

What do you think makes the suits heavy?

Sassy

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2016, 07:13:47 AM »
Sassy,

No I didn’t, for the perfectly good reason that there were no prop numbers to notice.

Ostrich... Wrong... it a well documented fact.

Quote
It is in. That’s why for example we can put satellites into orbit around other planets – something that could not happen if they did not have gravitational fields of their own.

That is an expression of your personal belief, yes.

The Sun will be “darkened” in the same way that every other star is darkened – when the core runs out of hydrogen fuel, it will contract under the weight of gravity. When the core contracts it will heat up, causing the upper layers to expand. The radius of the star will increase and it will become a red giant. Later, the core will become hot enough to cause the helium to fuse into carbon. When the helium runs out the core will expand and cool, and the upper layers will expand and eject material that will collect around the dying star to form a planetary nebula. Finally, the core will cool into a white dwarf and then eventually into a black dwarf.

Were you born with this knowledge, have you visited these stars and planets?
That would be a NO then. You are repeating what you were told without the any proof.
But you say you have no faith. You have a greater faith than the believer. You accept what you are told without any doubt even though you can never prove to yourself these things you believe are true,
But the Christians get their proof by the things God promises coming to pass.
However when what you believe is questioned, you repeat like a mantra what you believe scientist back you up with. But it remains you have no evidence just faith.
The moon does not give light at all – it merely reflects light, mostly from the Sun.
Quote
Given your elementary mistakes of fact so far I seem to know considerably more than you do, and I don’t need to be told that jumping out of a tenth storey window will cause me to hit the deck shortly afterwards. 

You are of course entitled to your own opinions, however bonkers; you are not though entitled to your own facts.

There are no elementary mistakes... Because the proof has been shown by the professional and expert scientist who at one time believed as you do that the moon landings took place. How the experts in physics and stuff have proved that had they gone to the moon when they said. They would have been bombarded with deadly rays of radiation from the atmosphere. But the truth is selective. You have no reason to believe what you were told because there isn't evidence just the word of scientist. When the scientist who are top in their field now tell you it was not possible for them to have gone to moon and landed on it, walked on it, then you ignore them.
Truth is, if they are right then nearly everything about time and space comes under question.

It appears believers are more open minded when it comes to scientist.
Go and look it up and answer the things that show it could not have happened. But make sure you can prove you are better qualified than the scientist and can prove them wrong.
We both you cannot... just as we know you are not willing to move from your belief because it required no evidence in the first instance.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Maeght

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Re: The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2016, 07:45:30 AM »
Ostrich... Wrong... it a well documented fact.

It really isn't Sassy.

Quote
When the scientist who are top in their field now tell you it was not possible for them to have gone to moon and landed on it, walked on it, then you ignore them.

But they don't say that.

Quote
Truth is, if they are right then nearly everything about time and space comes under question.

Why?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 01:11:39 PM by Maeght »