The Moon Landings: fact vs fiction.

[floo]

It is quite ironic that while the Moon landings are falsifiable: there are either man-made artifacts on the Moon or there are not (and it seems that there are) - the likes of Sass contest this via various convoluted conspiracy theories whilst, at the same time, claiming as true the unfalsifiable supernatural claims of some ancient middle-eastern religious anecdotes.

Very odd!

Good point.

[Sassy]

https://aplanetruth.info/2015/03/31/24-why-did-so-many-apollo-astronots-die-mysterious-deaths-in-just-three-years-time/

“How are we going to get to the moon if we can’t talk between two buildings?” Ed Grissom, Apollo 1

The issue of mysterious and untimely deaths also plagues the moon shots. Were whistleblowers silenced? The January 1967 death of Gus Grissom, along with Ed White and Roger Chaffee in the Apollo 1 fire, is a possibility. One of the more prominent debunkers of the “we-never-went-to-the-moon” crowd has published his “disgust” that Bill Kaysing would suggest that Gus Grissom was murdered in order to silence him.

Who else makes such a “disgusting” claim? Grissom’s wife and son do. They both believe that the Apollo 1 fire was no accident, and that the truth is being covered up. They have evidence that such a notion might be true, and Grissom’s son Scott is calling for an official investigation into the matter as of 2002. Grissom was critical of NASA, hanging a lemon on a NASA simulator before he died.

People associated with the Apollo 1 simulation on the day of the fire remarked on the strange atmosphere that prevailed. Grissom told his wife that if somebody died in an “accident,” it would likely be him, and not because he was accident prone. Straight-talking Grissom apparently made the NASA brass uneasy with his observations. During the Apollo 1 simulation, just before he died, the communications with the Command Module completely broke down, and Grissom said in exasperation, “How are we going to get to the moon if we can’t talk between two buildings?”

It isn't a theory taken lightly or even based on just idle talk.

Lola Morrow was the astronauts’ secretary. On the show Moon Shot she can be heard describing the atmosphere on the morning of the fire. She described the mood of Grissom, White and Chaffee as one she had never seen before. Before each flight and major event, the astronauts were eager to get to it. Not that day. They obviously did not want to do the simulation.

Clark MacDonald, an engineer working for McDonnell-Douglas, was hired by NASA to investigate the fire. He now has admitted that more than thirty years earlier, NASA destroyed the evidence he gathered, as well as the report he produced, for “public relations” reasons. MacDonald determined that an electrical short started the fire when the battery power was switched on. Grissom’s son Scott was granted access to the Apollo 1 craft, where he gathered evidence that he says pointed to sabotage, and that there has been a cover-up of it. (Source)

ANALYSIS: NASA’s First Disaster Happened on the Launch Pad

The younger Grissom had his suspicions in the 1960s but wasn’t able to prove foul play until the 1990s when he was granted access to the charred Apollo 1 capsule. Rooting around the instrumentation, he found a “fabricated metal plate” behind a switch on one of the instrument panels that controlled the source of the capsule’s electrical power. Its placement behind that switch, he said, was clearly an act of sabotage. It ensured that when any crew member toggled that switch there would be a spark. That spark would have been enough to start the fire that killed the crew.

A McDonnell-Douglas engineer, Clark Mac Donald, backed Scott Grissom’s story. In his own accident investigation he identified an electrical short brought on my a changeover to battery power as the reason for the fire. But NASA destroyed his report, he said, in an attempt to stem public criticism of the space program.

As a motive for murder by sabotage, Scott Grissom said NASA wanted to prevent his father being the first man on the moon. He said the agency never got over the embarrassment of losing the Liberty Bell 7 capsule and didn’t want the same astronaut commanding a mission as historic as the first moon landing. It’s a story that’s been floating around for a while, but it’s a hard one to swallow.

Not too far fetched after all.

[floo]

In your opinion.

[Stranger]

https://aplanetruth.info/2015/03/31/24-why-did-so-many-apollo-astronots-die-mysterious-deaths-in-just-three-years-time/

You do realise what this site is, don't you?

"Plane Not A Planet - The First Ever Flat Earth Website .... Helping to end 500 years of One Massive Lie."

https://aplanetruth.info/

Do you think the Earth is flat too?

[wigginhall]

There are some very sharp photos of tracks on the moon, made by humans, not yetis.   Also stuff like backpacks, which were discarded.

I appreciate that this will not convince the ultra-skeptics, who, as Gordon said, seem able to combine that with ultra-credulity in other areas.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/sep/06/moon-photographs-apollo-astronauts

[Shaker]

What do they think about the laser signals bounced back from retroreflectors on the lunar surfce then? It's actually a bloke up a tree somewhere with a flashlight?

[floo]

What do they think about the laser signals bounced back from retroreflectors on the lunar surfce then? It's actually a bloke up a tree somewhere with a flashlight?

Of course it is, LOL!

[Brownie]

Floo you obviously studied the subject of the moon landings in great detail to have reached your conclusions.  I did the same at one time and have forgotten a lot of it now but came to no conclusion.  The difference between me and you, and me and Sass, is that I don't feel particularly strongly about it.  It seems irrelevant in the scheme of things.  However I don't know whether the moon landings were real or fake, neither do you.  So what?  Life goes on.

[Sassy]

In your opinion.

The evidence is there from the engineers report which was originally withheld and the findings of the astronauts son in the 90's.
If you cannot tell the difference or make remarks without actually reading the posts and quotes then you really are ridiculous and should be ignored completely as it proves you have NOTHING of any value to add just simple pride at your own folly.

[Sassy]

You do realise what this site is, don't you?

"Plane Not A Planet - The First Ever Flat Earth Website .... Helping to end 500 years of One Massive Lie."

https://aplanetruth.info/

Do you think the Earth is flat too?

Are you walking up hill all the time. Do you never have to around mountains.
Thick and then there is really thick.
Do you feel you really are educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?
Folly and folly again...Ridiculous.

[Stranger]

Are you walking up hill all the time. Do you never have to around mountains.
Thick and then there is really thick.
Do you feel you really are educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?
Folly and folly again...Ridiculous.

Is bluster and insult all you can manage?

Was that a 'yes' - do you think the Earth is flat (as the site you linked to proposes)?

[Aruntraveller]

Are you walking up hill all the time. Do you never have to around mountains.
Thick and then there is really thick.
Do you feel you really are educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?
Folly and folly again...Ridiculous.

So are the photos of the Planet Earth as a globe shaped object falsified too?

[floo]

Are you walking up hill all the time. Do you never have to around mountains.
Thick and then there is really thick.
Do you feel you really are educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?
Folly and folly again...Ridiculous.

Oh that is a good one coming from you, Sass, LOL!!!!!!

[Sassy]

Is bluster and insult all you can manage?

Was that a 'yes' - do you think the Earth is flat (as the site you linked to proposes)?

Nothing insulting and no bluster.

Quote from: Some Kind of Stranger on Today at 01:01:25 PM
You do realise what this site is, don't you?

"Plane Not A Planet - The First Ever Flat Earth Website .... Helping to end 500 years of One Massive Lie."
https://aplanetruth.info/

Do you think the Earth is flat too?

Are you walking up hill all the time. Do you never have to around mountains.
Thick and then there is really thick.
Do you feel you really are educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?
Folly and folly again...Ridiculous.

We were talking about the moon landing.
As for the earth being flat we all know the surface of the earth is NOT IN ALL PLACES. Don't we...
Thick and then really thick being that they thought it flat so could sail off the end in a ship.
Did you think that personally reflected on you? Guess you read what you want to read...
And it is folly and ridiculous for you to actually believe you are educated enough to comment about a man better educated than you and whom you have NEVER actually  HEARD speak or read his publications.

So there you go. You were just to prejudicial and closed minded to actually read the post as it was intended.
As I said if you feel you are really educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?

[BeRational]

Sassy,

I have seen him on TV, and I could educate him about evolution!

[Sassy]

Sassy,

I have seen him on TV, and I could educate him about evolution!

Well write to him. Let us know how you get on. Because he uses the scientists own findings against them.
Proving them to be incorrect and show why they are incorrect. So I am all for you correcting him.
Just one thing... I don't believe you can. But hey! If you believe you can I want to see it.

[wigginhall]

Floo you obviously studied the subject of the moon landings in great detail to have reached your conclusions.  I did the same at one time and have forgotten a lot of it now but came to no conclusion.  The difference between me and you, and me and Sass, is that I don't feel particularly strongly about it.  It seems irrelevant in the scheme of things.  However I don't know whether the moon landings were real or fake, neither do you.  So what?  Life goes on.

Don't agree with this.  Space exploration is partly a scientific project.   See Shaker's point about the reflection of lasers from the reflectors left on the moon, which has helped to determine the nature of the moon's liquid core, variations in gravity, and of course,  very accurate measurements of distance from earth to moon.

If we're going to start bringing in conspiracy theories as a substitute for this, we can expect someone to say, 'if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?',  or, 'it's chilly today, therefore global warming is wrong', and other nonsense, which overturns scientific findings.

[floo]

Nothing insulting and no bluster.
We were talking about the moon landing.
As for the earth being flat we all know the surface of the earth is NOT IN ALL PLACES. Don't we...
Thick and then really thick being that they thought it flat so could sail off the end in a ship.
Did you think that personally reflected on you? Guess you read what you want to read...
And it is folly and ridiculous for you to actually believe you are educated enough to comment about a man better educated than you and whom you have NEVER actually  HEARD speak or read his publications.

So there you go. You were just to prejudicial and closed minded to actually read the post as it was intended.
As I said if you feel you are really educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?

Qualifications don't always ensure a person knows what they are talking about, like 'scientists' who believe the creation story to be factual!

[Stranger]

Nothing insulting and no bluster.

You posted: "Thick and then there is really thick" and "Folly and folly again...Ridiculous" what do you call it? Reasoned argument..?

We were talking about the moon landing.

Yes, and you quoted "evidence" from a source that was also arguing for a flat Earth - unless you agree that the Earth is a flat (a flat disk, not a planet) as the site claims, don't you think that would tell us something about said site's credibility?

As for the earth being flat we all know the surface of the earth is NOT IN ALL PLACES. Don't we...
Thick and then really thick being that they thought it flat so could sail off the end in a ship.

I have no idea what this jumble of words is supposed to mean...

As I said if you feel you are really educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?

Are you still upset about "Dr" McMurtry? With the impressive degree in agriculture and dodgy doctorate in theology? Who can't translate his words into numbers and can't then interpret his results properly?

If you want to take up that, I'm still waiting for your response to this:-

I'll direct you again to #229 and again challenge to go through the "argument" from "Dr" McMurtry and my response, in detail, and show me my mistakes and how "Dr" McMurtry is not being stupid, dishonest or both.

Again, I'll not hold my breath, because all you seem capable of of is ranting, bluster, and insult.

[Stranger]

Qualifications don't always ensure a person knows what they are talking about, like 'scientists' who believe the creation story to be factual!

The joke is that "Dr" McMurtry (who I think Sassy is talking about) isn't even a scientist and doesn't have any relevant qualifications...

[BeRational]

Well write to him. Let us know how you get on. Because he uses the scientists own findings against them.
Proving them to be incorrect and show why they are incorrect. So I am all for you correcting him.
Just one thing... I don't believe you can. But hey! If you believe you can I want to see it.

No he doesn't.

I have seen him lie about radiometric dating on TV.

He is only convincing to people who know nothing.

[Sebastian Toe]

Nothing insulting and no bluster.
We were talking about the moon landing.

Yes the moon landing.

Les talk about Eugene Cernan,the last man to walk on the moon.

Here is a link to an interview with him.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140805-the-last-man-to-walk-on-the-moon

Some quotes
We launched off that pad in a big Saturn V rocket that took us to the Moon. People had dreamed of leaving the cradle of civilisation – this Earth of ours – and we did it. Fortunately, I was one of the guys to go out there, to look back at the Earth and try to comprehend the meaning of it all.

When I left the Moon and started up the ladder, I was really at a loss. I didn’t want to leave and I looked down at my last footsteps and realised I wasn’t coming this way again

I searched for that answer, I needed more time. I wanted to press the freeze button, stop time to give myself a chance to think about it. I had an opportunity to sit on God’s front porch looking at the small part of the civilisation of this universe that he created.

Looks like he is a man of God.
Do you doubt his word?

[Sebastian Toe]

Nothing insulting and no bluster.
We were talking about the moon landing.

Lets talk some more about the moon landing.

Lets talk about Buzz Aldrin,the second man to walk on the moon shall we.

Here he is writing about his path to being the first and only man to take communion on the moon?
https://www.guideposts.org/faith/stories-of-faith/guideposts-classics-buzz-aldrin-on-communion-in-space?nopaging=1
Quote
And so, just before I partook of the elements, I read the words which I had chosen to indicate our trust that as man probes into space we are in fact acting in Christ.

I sensed especially strongly my unity with our church back home, and with the Church everywhere.

I read: "I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me, and I in him, will bear much fruit; for you can do nothing without me." John 15:5 (TEV)

Looks like a devout Christian.

Do you doubt his word as to whether he walked on the moon or not?
Are you going to call him a liar?

[Sebastian Toe]

Nothing insulting and no bluster.
We were talking about the moon landing.

Lets talk even more about the moon landing.


James Irwin from Apollo 15.

Within a year of Irwin’s return from space, he resigned from NASA and formed High Flight Foundation, which is on a quest to reach the world as “goodwill ambassadors for the Prince of Peace.”

“God decided that He would send His Son Jesus Christ to the blue planet,” Irwin said, “and it’s through faith in Jesus Christ that we can relate to God. Jesus Himself said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes unto the Father except through me.’

“As I travel around I tell people the answer is Jesus Christ, that Jesus walking on the earth is more important than man walking on the moon.”

For two decades, Irwin traveled the world and presented small flags he carried from the moon to the leaders of various countries. “These flags were so powerful,” says Bill Dodder, a close friend to Irwin. “He took flags to each country as a means to witness for Jesus Christ.
http://www.godreports.com/testimony-view/1249

Do you doubt his word?
Are you calling him a liar when he says that he walked on the moon?

[Sebastian Toe]

Are you walking up hill all the time. Do you never have to around mountains.
Thick and then there is really thick.
Do you feel you really are educated enough to make comments about those who have qualifications you do not?
Folly and folly again...Ridiculous.

The Earth is flat and not a sphere. FACT. Why? because it says that on the site that you linked to!
Just one FACT to prove the case......
https://aplanetruth.info/2-is-the-earth-a-sphere-the-great-rivers/

Are they correct or not?