Author Topic: Where's Nelson? (Read 2230 times)

Quite a lucky break for Mandela when you think about it. In BBC interviews he admitted to planting bombs, so if they hadn't arrested him (before he actually killed anyone) he would probably have been killed in action or hanged as a murderer.

Maeght · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2016, 10:57:39 PM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 15, 2016, 10:50:42 PM

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Spidey-sense

I know what spideysense refers to. I thought the 'nuff said comment was a clue, since this was the catch phrase of the creator of Spiderman, Stan Lee. I just didn't understand what you were on about in the OP - and the use of nosense was a way of reflecting that whilst 'punning' your use of sceptisense!

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2016, 11:00:46 PM »

Quote from: L.A. on May 15, 2016, 10:52:09 PM

Quite a lucky break for Mandela when you think about it. In BBC interviews he admitted to planting bombs, so if they arrested him (before he actually killed anyone) he would probably have been killed in action or hanged as a murderer.

Yeah cos that was the same with Steve Biko, oops, no, it wasn't

Maeght · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2016, 11:01:52 PM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 15, 2016, 11:00:46 PM

Yeah cos that was the same with Steve Biko, oops, no, it wasn't

But it didn't happen with Mandela.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2016, 11:04:56 PM »

Quote from: Maeght on May 15, 2016, 10:57:39 PM

I know what spideysense refers to. I thought the 'nuff said comment was a clue, since this was the catch phrase of the creator of Spiderman, Stan Lee. I just didn't understand what you were on about in the OP - and the use of nosense was a way of reflecting that whilst 'punning' your use of sceptisense!

I was using the word as a playful reference to spideysense to indicate that I found the story believable. I thought it relatively simple, I am sorry if it was gnomic.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #12 on:** May 15, 2016, 11:07:54 PM »

Quote from: Maeght on May 15, 2016, 11:01:52 PM

But it didn't happen with Mandela.

obviously not, but the implication in LA's post that the SA authorities followed the rule of law so that Mandela was safe in custody was incorrect

L.A. · « **Reply #13 on:** May 15, 2016, 11:09:05 PM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 15, 2016, 11:00:46 PM

Yeah cos that was the same with Steve Biko, oops, no, it wasn't

Mandela (significantly) didn't die in police custody - possibly because the CIA were watching him so carefully?

L.A. · « **Reply #14 on:** May 15, 2016, 11:23:37 PM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 15, 2016, 11:07:54 PM

obviously not, but the implication in LA's post that the SA authorities followed the rule of law so that Mandela was safe in custody was incorrect

That's not quite the point I was making.

In his BBC interview Mandela admitted he had been a terrorist. He had planted bombs but not caused any great damage or killed anyone. Had he not been arrested there would have been a very good chance that he would have caused innocent deaths of been killed himself in the terror campaign. The fact that the CIA had their eyes on him, meant that it would have been inadvisable for the SA police 'make him disappear'. So they stuck him out of harms way where he remained until the politics were right to unveil him as President of the new democratic South Africa.

Lucky Bastard!

Maeght · « **Reply #15 on:** May 15, 2016, 11:31:54 PM »

I just removed my post because I felt the thread might become an argument which I didn't want to get into (probably broke some forum rules or something!) - and I'll leave it at that for now as its time for bed! But since you quoted it LA it is still there though after all.

Anyway, 'nuff said

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #16 on:** May 16, 2016, 05:56:51 PM »

Quote from: L.A. on May 15, 2016, 11:23:37 PM

That's not quite the point I was making.

In his BBC interview Mandela admitted he had been a terrorist. He had planted bombs but not caused any great damage or killed anyone. Had he not been arrested there would have been a very good chance that he would have caused innocent deaths of been killed himself in the terror campaign. The fact that the CIA had their eyes on him, meant that it would have been inadvisable for the SA police 'make him disappear'. So they stuck him out of harms way where he remained until the politics were right to unveil him as President of the new democratic South Africa.

Lucky Bastard!

And by the definition used so were the Maquis. I like the take that the CIA didn't allow people they were keeping an eye on to be killed. If only it were so

L.A. · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2016, 06:12:04 PM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 16, 2016, 05:56:51 PM

And by the definition used so were the Maquis.

What do they say about history being written by the victors?

Quote

I like the take that the CIA didn't allow people they were keeping an eye on to be killed. If only it were so

It would have got embarrassing if too many killings had been associated with the CIA. Quite a lot of Americans were anti-apartheid.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #18 on:** May 16, 2016, 06:20:24 PM »

Quote from: L.A. on May 16, 2016, 06:12:04 PM

What do they say about history being written by the victors?It would have got embarrassing if too many killings had been associated with the CIA. Quite a lot of Americans were anti-apartheid.

Not that many in 62 when they viewed Mandela as a communist. And yes history is written by the victors but that doesn't mean it might not be useful to be consistent.

L.A. · « **Reply #19 on:** May 16, 2016, 06:25:50 PM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 16, 2016, 06:20:24 PM

Not that many in 62 when they viewed Mandela as a communist. And yes history is written by the victors but that doesn't mean it might not be useful to be consistent.

I think in 1962 Mandela probably regarded himself as a communist - and in the alternative universe where Hitler had won the war, you would have been taught (and probably believed) that the Maquis were bloody terrorists who had had to be destroyed.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #20 on:** May 16, 2016, 06:38:20 PM »

Quote from: L.A. on May 16, 2016, 06:25:50 PM

I think in 1962 Mandela probably regarded himself as a communist - and in the alternative universe where Hitler had won the war, you would have been taught (and probably believed) that the Maquis were bloody terrorists who had had to be destroyed.

and if that had happened would have made it true?

As to the communist question, the issue is perspective, as your posts underline. Actually I doubt that Mandela would have self described himself as Communist at the time, rather than sympathetic to Communism, despite our black and white approach (pun most definitely intended), it wasn't the same thing. The point being though that the CIA wouldn't have been that bothered about keeping him alive if viewed as a Communist and at that time anti_ apartheid support in the US wasn't that big a thing (which was your claim)

L.A. · « **Reply #21 on:** May 16, 2016, 06:51:01 PM »

Quote from: Nearly Sane on May 16, 2016, 06:38:20 PM

and if that had happened would have made it true?

As to the communist question, the issue is perspective, as your posts underline. Actually I doubt that Mandela would have self described himself as Communist at the time, rather than sympathetic to Communism, despite our black and white approach (pun most definitely intended), it wasn't the same thing. The point being though that the CIA wouldn't have been that bothered about keeping him alive if viewed as a Communist and at that time anti_ apartheid support in the US wasn't that big a thing (which was your claim)

My point was that the CIA didn't want him dead - if they had wanted him dead he would never have made it to Robin Island.

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Author Topic: Where's Nelson? (Read 2230 times)