My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?

[trippymonkey]

Are some here actually bothered about the 'TRUTH' or just looking for something that coincides with what they already THINK is the truth ?
So rejecting ANYTHING that doesn't 'fit in'?

Nick

[Gonnagle]

Dear Nick,

What TRUTH, you have chosen to pose your question on the Christian topic bit, so what Christian TRUTH are you asking, and please remember that we are all subject to confirmation bias, we all cherry pick.

Gonnagle.

[floo]

None of us can know the elusive 'truth' for sure where god and an afterlife is concerned. As there is no evidence to support the existence of the Biblical god and everything claimed for it,  I am of the opinion it doesn't exist. However, I would be a fool to claim that is a definite fact and the TRUTH.

[BeRational]

Dear Nick,

What TRUTH, you have chosen to pose your question on the Christian topic bit, so what Christian TRUTH are you asking, and please remember that we are all subject to confirmation bias, we all cherry pick.

Gonnagle.

Some of us do out best not to cherry pick and not succumb to confirmation bias.

If I see something that does not agree with a current belief, I do NOT discard it out of hand. It needs to be looked at and considered.

Christians, and in fact all theists cannot do that. If they did, they would have to conclude that the possibility of a god is remote, as the 'evidence' for it, is ALWAYS poor and not sufficient. The fact they do still believe, means they MUST be prepared to believe on poor evidence.

Why would anyone believe something for bad reason?

[Rhiannon]

Neither my truth not your truth are true, so I'm not sure where we go from there.

[torridon]

Maybe we could go to Nietzche :

"there are no facts, only perspectives"

or something like that.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Berational,

Christians, and in fact all theists cannot do that. If they did, they would have to conclude that the possibility of a god is remote, as the 'evidence' for it, is ALWAYS poor and not sufficient. The fact they do still believe, means they MUST be prepared to believe on poor evidence.

Ah the old atheist, EVIDENCE, wheres your evidence, my evidence is the same as your evidence, but I am different, I ask WHY, why gravity, why evolution, why us, why are we here to ponder the wonders of the Universe, why life, why can we understand ( in a very limited way ) the wonders of the Universe, so many WHY'S.

Just is, is no answer for me, we were just an accident waiting to happen, no sorry, doesn't wash, it was inevitable, sorry again, WHY am I here to gaze out at the stars and think, F*** me that is truly beautiful.

Another WHY, why God, go on fill your boots with, "we are mean seeking creatures" that might do it for you, not me.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Another WHY, why God, go on fill your boots with, "we are mean seeking creatures"

Some of us, yup

[Bubbles]

Are some here actually bothered about the 'TRUTH' or just looking for something that coincides with what they already THINK is the truth ?
So rejecting ANYTHING that doesn't 'fit in'?

Nick

I suppose I am looking for my truth, that thing which conforms to my sense of reality which is backed up by my evidence ( experience).

Like most people I will only move what "my truth and reality " is after a lot of soul searching and experiences/discussions which show me that my truth is flawed.

I suppose most people have a bit of cognitive dissonance 

I think we are all doing it, otherwise we wouldn't have things to disagree over 

[Stranger]

Just is, is no answer for me...

But "just is" seems to be a good enough answer for "why is there a god?"

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

God "just is" that will do for me

On a totally unrelated and completely off topic subject which came first, flying mammal or flying insect, it has been bugging me all morning ( bugging ) can't seem to find a link.

Gonnagle.

[BeRational]

Dear Berational,

Ah the old atheist, EVIDENCE, wheres your evidence, my evidence is the same as your evidence, but I am different, I ask WHY, why gravity, why evolution, why us, why are we here to ponder the wonders of the Universe, why life, why can we understand ( in a very limited way ) the wonders of the Universe, so many WHY'S.

Just is, is no answer for me, we were just an accident waiting to happen, no sorry, doesn't wash, it was inevitable, sorry again, WHY am I here to gaze out at the stars and think, F*** me that is truly beautiful.

Another WHY, why God, go on fill your boots with, "we are mean seeking creatures" that might do it for you, not me.

Gonnagle.

But all your whys have no answer.

So the ONLY honest answer is "Don't know".

Go no further than that and you remain honest unbiased and not cherry picking.

The moment you invent an answer you are lost.

[Rhiannon]

'They just are' is a plenty good enough explanation for why there's life, why the stars, the universe. We can give our individual lives meaning according to whatever comes our way, but to think there is any underlying purpose to it seems to me to overcomplicate what is actually quite beautifully simple.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Berational,

But all your whys have no answer.

so far, but asking why seems a perfectly good question.

So the ONLY honest answer is "Don't know".

Fine, I am quite happy with don't know, but I am not fine with taking God out of the equation, which for me brings us winging all the way back to "what is God" I don't know!!

Go no further than that and you remain honest unbiased and not cherry picking.

No, it makes me human, a curious bugger, I want to go further, I am not happy with "don't know".

The moment you invent an answer you are lost.

The moment I invent an answer, just like science, I explore it, see if it has any merit, I imagine an answer, just like my hero Albert, then I explore it, see if it can be falsified.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

'They just are' is a plenty good enough explanation for why there's life, why the stars, the universe. We can give our individual lives meaning according to whatever comes our way, but to think there is any underlying purpose to it seems to me to overcomplicate what is actually quite beautifully simple.

Just is, stop asking why, nah!! but I agree, it is "quite beautifully simple" ain't God Great

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

Fine, I am quite happy with don't know, but I am not fine with taking God out of the equation, which for me brings us winging all the way back to "what is God" I don't know!!

Why aren't you fine with taking God out of the equation? Given that you then say you don't know what god is, what has it added except for another "don't know"?

The moment I invent an answer, just like science, I explore it, see if it has any merit, I imagine an answer, just like my hero Albert, then I explore it, see if it can be falsified.

But god can't be falsified (at least many versions can't and the ones that can be, have been). Also, it isn't actually any sort of answer: because god could "explain" absolutely anything, it doesn't actually explain anything.

[jjohnjil]

Why aren't you fine with taking God out of the equation? Given that you then say you don't know what god is, what has it added except for another "don't know"?

But god can't be falsified (at least many versions can't and the ones that can be, have been). Also, it isn't actually any sort of answer: because god could "explain" absolutely anything, it doesn't actually explain anything.

I think you're being very unfair on Gonners here, Stranger.  As you say, he Is just adding another unknown.  There are going to be a myriad unknowns before Man finally cracks the problem and one more hurts no one.

In my mind, Gonners is just putting a name to his feelings of awe and wonderment at the marvels of the Universe.  I do it too, but without giving it a name or purpose.

At least he isn't threatening anyone or forcing biblical verses down everyone's throats.

I like to think there are Christians like Brownie and Gonners to show us they're not all like Sassy and TW..   

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

Why aren't you fine with taking God out of the equation? Given that you then say you don't know what god is, what has it added except for another "don't know"?

I am a God botherer, sue me!!

But god can't be falsified (at least many versions can't and the ones that can be, have been). Also, it isn't actually any sort of answer: because god could "explain" absolutely anything, it doesn't actually explain anything.

So we don't bother, we give up, we stop questioning, sounds alot like atheism to me. ( Nearlysane will be along shortly to give me a slap )

Dear jj,

Cheers mate

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

I am a God botherer, sue me!!

Yes, I do understand that - I'm just struggling to understand why.

So we don't bother, we give up, we stop questioning, sounds alot like atheism to me. ( Nearlysane will be along shortly to give me a slap )

In much the same way theists give up after they've postulated god?   

No, I'm not suggesting we give up but there seems little point (as far as I can see) in dreaming up a "solution" that doesn't really explain anything and cannot be falsified or tested in any objective way. How does it actually add anything to our understanding?

[Stranger]

I think you're being very unfair on Gonners here, Stranger.  As you say, he Is just adding another unknown.  There are going to be a myriad unknowns before Man finally cracks the problem and one more hurts no one.

In my mind, Gonners is just putting a name to his feelings of awe and wonderment at the marvels of the Universe.  I do it too, but without giving it a name or purpose.

At least he isn't threatening anyone or forcing biblical verses down everyone's throats.

I like to think there are Christians like Brownie and Gonners to show us they're not all like Sassy and TW..   

I absolutely agree with your last comment.

Whereas it's fairly clear how the likes of Sassy and TW "think", I'm actually rather curious about how people like Gonners get to their conclusions.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

No, I'm not suggesting we give up but there seems little point (as far as I can see) in dreaming up a "solution" that doesn't really explain anything and cannot be falsified or tested in any objective way. How does it actually add anything to our understanding?

To me, my opinion, it gives me an understanding of being human, what makes us us, God has been with us since day dot, since we first stepped out of or into the cave, recent scientific study hints that God was there even before we stepped out of the cave, example, Nearly sanes link to chimps having a religious place, a tree.

God, religion, faith, is a fascinating subject, of course there is no scientific methodology to study God, but for me, I see God everywhere, I see God in the science.

Gonnagle.

[Khatru]

Unlike some on this board, my "truth" doesn't entail thinking that people will be horribly tortured for all eternity if they fail to accept my truth.

[floo]

Unlike some on this board, my "truth" doesn't entail thinking that people will be horribly tortured for all eternity if they fail to accept my truth.

In which case you are missing out on the 'pleasure' of thinking about folk roasting in hell, as one particular poster appears to get off on!

[Brownie]

That's all very well but how many other posters think like that on here?  If there wasn't one you would have to find something else to home in on, floo.  I've only seen one poster here who says things like that and find it unpalatable but must admit I can't remember who it is (& please don't enlighten me).

Also I doubt you come across many in real life nowadays who believe in conscious eternal torment.   You have to seek out that sort of opinion these days, it's rare.  No doubt they are tortured souls themselves in one way or another and we can avoid them, like some are avoided at 'bus stops.

[BeRational]

Dear Stranger,

To me, my opinion, it gives me an understanding of being human, what makes us us, God has been with us since day dot, since we first stepped out of or into the cave, recent scientific study hints that God was there even before we stepped out of the cave, example, Nearly sanes link to chimps having a religious place, a tree.

God, religion, faith, is a fascinating subject, of course there is no scientific methodology to study God, but for me, I see God everywhere, I see God in the science.

Gonnagle.

But you are making all this up without evidence.

The point I was making is that it is Theists like yourself that ARE cherry picking, using Confirmation Bias, and not thinking rationally.

When you do not know something, you absolutely investigate, you do not give up. But, what you do NOT do, is just invent a made up answer, that actually answers nothing.